Page 2 of 3 <123>
Topic Options
#145300 - 06/22/03 05:38 PM Re: My Statement [Re: vayank]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

Offline
FYI

I was told that I would be reinstated as a member of the CU Forum. Joe Orlando has to give the OK and apparently has been too busy to deal with this or his lack of action is telling me that I am not going to be offered reinstatement.

On Saturday I sent him an e-mail offering my resignation, as I thought that it was a little silly that I still be considered an Authorized Dealer for PSA when he felt the need to silence me. If he does not feel that I properly represent PSA in a speaking capacity then I cannot possibly represent them as an Authorized Dealer and he should accept my resignation.

Top
#145301 - 06/22/03 06:47 PM Re: My Statement [Re: botn]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

Offline
Botn,

I've gone back and forth on whether something should of been said
to you on this. I can understand both point of views. The only thing
I'm pretty convinced of is that it was handled poorly by Psa. My guess
is they just hope you go away. I'm sure when the thread gets 'ttt'
it must iritate them. I would think they would not care but based on
the reactions to date they do care.

I thought that some of the cards you had up were a pass as eights. I
did not measure them but I thought they probably made it for eights.
And because of that I could understand their disagreement with you.
I can even understand somewhat their wanting to discipline (that might
be a bad word but I can't think of anything better) you in some type
of way. Psa management should of responded to your post to
disagree, emailed you privately to discuss, and maybe suspended
your board privileges for a short time, and issued a future warning.

Now they made a mountain out of a mole hill. If you go back to the
boards will you ever be able to be critical of anything in a Psa slab?

I hope you do go back since I enjoy your posts. I figure if you post
here and there it is a good thing for collectors like me who like
to learn about the hobby.

aconte

_________________________

Top
#145302 - 06/22/03 07:11 PM Re: My Statement [Re: aconte]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

Offline
Aconte,

Although it was nice to see the amount of support that I received from a majority of the members on the CU Forum, I never said that I handled the situation well. I have admitted to everyone that my post was impulsive and in that regard, off base. People who did take the time to measure the cards proved that my assessment was not accurate.

I thought that I had an understanding with someone at PSA to warn me if I were ever out of line. Not that it is this person's responsibility to keep an eye on me but I would have liked for PSA to handle this in a different way.

Certainly if I were to go back to the boards and if I were to remain a PSA Authorized Dealer then they would probably not tolerate my making public statements that criticize their service in any way. I suppose that makes sense too. If I were PSA I would ask myself why would someone like myself want to be a Rep if I am going to make criticisms of their company.

I think that it is time for us to part ways since we each have a different way of seeing things. Certainly PSA is not that sensitive to the criticism as they left the original post as well as many others in which people attack them. I think that they have a question as to my loyalty to them since I clearly support GAI and SGC. I was asked if my Namath post had ulterior motives. Obviously my open endorsement of other grading services is seen by them as a slap in the face. I do not know many PSA Authorized Dealers who are openly supporting SGC and GAI as alternatives to PSA.

Greg

Edited for spelling errors.

Top
#145303 - 06/22/03 08:43 PM Re: My Statement *DELETED* [Re: botn]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

Offline
Post deleted by dena
Top
#145304 - 06/22/03 11:03 PM Re: My Statement [Re: MW1]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

Offline
MW

I have never had a problem with GAI or SGC not wanting my business as a result of my being affiliated with PSA. I have never been approached in any way whereby I felt that I needed to make a choice. In fact, the last time that I spoke to Sean he agreed that there is a need for dealers and collectors to be open to using other services. With that said, PSA has never directly or indirectly (possibly until now) told me not to deal with SGC or GAI.

In speaking with Charlie at PSA I have told him recently on numerous occasions that my submissions were down or virtually non-existent because I was finding the grading all over the place and was concerned and frustrated. I am not the only one to see things this way. Just about every dealer that I speak with agrees right now that it is virtually impossible to predict your grades.

As for those cards that I posted I said that I was going based on a few minutes of evaluation on the entire group and did not measure them. I was going by eye appeal alone. Based on that they appeared off center and not consistent with the centering criterion that PSA uses for the unqualified 8 grade. I did not post out of being bitter just thought that I was pointing out the obvious. For as far back as I can remember 65/35 cards did not go into 8 holders unless they were MINT 9's, or close to it, in every other respect.

If it was my intent to really try to give PSA a black eye I could have posted images of other cards that may have more clearly demonstrated grading errors or oversights. I also could have posted details about recent submissions that I have made that involved serious problems which I took on the chin and chalked up to the cost of doing business.

Greg

Top
#145305 - 06/22/03 11:46 PM Re: My Statement *DELETED* [Re: botn]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

Offline
Post deleted by dena
Top
#145306 - 08/01/03 07:38 AM BOTN! [Re: MW1]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

Offline
Greg, just curious? Did you have your pow-wow and how did it go?
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

Top
#145307 - 08/09/03 09:49 PM Re: BOTN! [Re: vayank]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

Offline
Hi Matthew,

I had decided not to go to the National this year for various reasons. My meeting with Joe was supposed to have taken place at SportsFest in Chicago in June. I think that BidKidAtHeart had posted in error on the CU board that Joe and I were to meet at the National.

I never met with Joe or attempted another contact with him after apologizing to him. I had decided that I had said everything that I wanted to say in the subsequent e-mails that followed his decision to ban me from the boards. I guess Joe and I have a different opinion about what my responsibilities are as an Authorized Dealer. As I have said, right or wrong, my obligation is to what I feel is in the best interest of the hobby and sometimes that is going to mean that I will say things that CU may not like. I have no idea what Joe wanted to say to me during this meeting where he said that we would "work it out". I know that I was not about to start posting under a probationary arrangement or to self-censor my posts.

The fact remains that I am most critical of PSA of all of the grading companies, PRO included, because I feel that management has an air of no accountability among other things. They are a product of their own success. And as such they should be subject to scrutiny, which most of the public is unwilling to take part of. I felt that it was my responsibility to not maintain party line and point out the flaws—even if that meant that I was inaccurate in that now infamous 1965 Topps Namath post.

I see many CU forum members being critical of PSA--more now than ever. The forum has lost other respected members, as you are aware. More members are expressing their dissatisfaction with policy changes (half point grading and the membership fee, most recently) and feel uneasy about whether or not PSA has their best interests. There is dissension even among the PSA faithful. At SportsFest I saw numerous dealers who have always been associated with PSA using SGC and GAI. That says a great deal to me about what the trend is for PSA, regardless of how many PSA graded cards dominate ebay at every given moment.

I do not submit to PSA any longer and have adjusted my inventory to accommodate the strengths associated with SGC and GAI grading services. I am not providing merchandise to holder buyers or the set registry members but to those who want to collect accurately graded cards, mainly in collector grade (under NM condition). I can and will make a living without the use of PSA.

Sorry for rambling, Matthew.

Best regards,
Greg

Top
#145308 - 08/10/03 05:42 AM Re: BOTN! [Re: botn]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

Offline
Greg, Thanks. People are curious. I wish you the best of luck, and hope to see you post here often.

There are a couple of threads here, which are hanging, waiting for someone with more vintage expertise to respond to.
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

Top
#145309 - 08/10/03 08:55 AM Re: BOTN! [Re: botn]
KLL
Hobbyist


Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 62

Offline
Greg

We spoke about a year ago. I thought you made your living as an accountant and that you sold cards every once in a while. Has this changed? Do you have a web site? Please post the URL. Do you have a list of your current inventory that you can post for us. Do you have any 1959 or 1960 SGC 88-92's?

You mentioned that you saw "numerous dealers" who have been associated with PSA selling GAI & SGC cards. Which of these "PSA dealers" were selling SGC cards? DO you have any names? At the National I saw many of these "PSA dealers" with GAI cards on their tables, but not one with a single SGC card on their table. The only dealer that I saw with PSA & SGC cards was BMW and I would not consider him to be a "PSA dealer". And I don't think BMW had any GAI graded cards.

Top
Page 2 of 3 <123>


Moderator:  EARLSWORLD 
Hop to:
Who's Online
0 registered and 5 anonymous users online.
Newest Members
klmnop450123, abcdef863349, vwxyz{570399, nopqrs004715, tjf092071
1963 Registered Users

Generated in 0.026 seconds in which 0.002 seconds were spent on a total of 15 queries. Zlib compression disabled.