Page 1 of 1 1
Topic Options
#1456954 - 11/20/06 07:47 PM Condtradiction when it comes to getting cards bumped.
samsammy23
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 10/16/03
Posts: 12

Offline
I've noticed a lot of people who talk about resubmitting cards to various grading companies. Is it just me or do other people see this has contradictory? If you have faith in your grading company, shouldn't you have to accept what they give you as a grade? It seems like if you don't and you resubmit a card, you're saying that you have a better eye than the so-called experts. Some people just seem to resubmit until they get the grade they think it deserves. If this is what is happening, maybe the slabs should have a +/- of one grade. I understand that grading is somewhat subjective, but it seems like people should have to honor the grades they get. To a degree, doesn't this idea make it difficult to buy any given graded card? It may say SGC 96 or PSA 9 or whatever, but how do you know if it wasn't submitted two prior times and both those times they were 88's or 8's? I'm sure that if a card gets overgraded, the submitter will put the card in their registry set or just sell it, even though it may not warrant the grade it received. This isn't a jab at any grading company per se, I seem to have lost faith in grading because the grade doesn't really indicate what the condition of the card is. It just states what a given person deemed that card worthy of that day. Please share your thoughts on this.
Chad.



Attachments


Top
#1456955 - 11/20/06 07:57 PM Re: Condtradiction when it comes to getting cards bumped. [Re: samsammy23]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

Offline
Money makes people behave oddly -- and the difference in a grade (or two) can be significant in terms of dollars. Contradictory, perhaps...but easily understandable.
Top
#1456956 - 11/21/06 04:10 AM Re: Condtradiction when it comes to getting cards bumped. [Re: srs1a]
aro13
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 16

Offline
~"It just states what a given person deemed that card worthy of that day."~

I agree with that statement. There are so many cards that are tweeners and the grading companies are grading so many cards it stands to reason that bumps happen quite frequently. Given the huge difference in price between grades it makes sense that a submitter will keep submitting until the card is given the highest grade it could possibly get.

Top
#1456957 - 11/21/06 07:24 AM Re: Condtradiction when it comes to getting cards bumped. [Re: aro13]
samsammy23
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 10/16/03
Posts: 12

Offline
Yes, the money factor is easily understandable. I have and will continue to resubmit cards to get a better grade to sell for more. I agree to a degree about the "tweener" cards point. If you take PSA for example, they claim to have 3 graders looking at each card, assuming the first two graders agree on the grade. They all agree and the card gets an 8. Now the submitter is not happy with the grade and he/she resubmits and gets a 9. This means that 3 graders all agree that the card is now a 9. In some instances, 4 graders will look at a card before giving it a grade. It seems that in theory, you could have 1/2 the graders think the card is graded X and the other 1/2 think it's graded Y. This is kind of why I said that graded cards should have a tolerance of +/= one grade.


"Given the huge difference in price between grades it makes sense that a submitter will keep submitting until the card is given the highest grade it could possibly get."

I agree with this, but the resubmitter only stops when they get a high grade. No one is resubmitting cards that they think were overgraded.

Thanks for the input.
Chad.

Top
#1456958 - 11/21/06 07:51 AM Re: Condtradiction when it comes to getting cards bumped. [Re: samsammy23]
FYS
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 1665
Loc: Michigan - The Spartan State

Offline
Quote:

If you take PSA for example, they claim to have 3 graders looking at each card,




I believe Joe Orlando publicly stated that PSA lied about this or actually changed there process/policy without updating their brochures and grading video.
_________________________
1984 W.S. Champs RC's



Top
#1456959 - 11/30/06 07:45 PM Re: Condtradiction when it comes to getting cards bumped. [Re: FYS]
bbo
The Collectinator


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3374
Loc: Top of the 1959 Registry

Offline
Grading is by definition based on a fixed scale, 1-10, or 10-100, depending upon your company of choice.

Cards themselves fall into a much more nearly infinite scale, e.g., .001 - 99.999. The human eye (and brain) cannot possibly differentiate all the minutae in grading a card and get it right every time.

My personal theory is based upon statistics, actually the bell curve approach. Send in 100 vintage cards of similar quality that you consider to be NM or better. You might receive grades as follows (for illustration only, no submission necessarily yielded these exact results):

70 - 1 card (dang, missed a wrinkle on the back)
80 - 9 cards (varying degrees of corner wear under a loupe knocked these down)
84 - 80 cards (pretty much in line with what I thought)
86 - 9 cards (got the benefit of the doubt on those, maybe grader liked the "eye appeal")
88 - 1 card (even a novice gets thrown a bone once in a while)

Standard bell curve, but my invoices never looked this clean.

Now take the 9 cards that received a 80 and pull another 11 cards that you think are high end 84's. Crack and resubmit.

When the grader (same one or different, it doesn't matter) looks at these 20 cards relative to each other, I hypothesize that you are bound to receive a few 86's this next time around from that batch of 84's. Simple human nature to compare a card to the one just graded (which also speaks to how you order the cards on the invoice, but that discussion is for another thread).

Will they all ever get 86's? No. At some point, infinite submissions (irresistable force) meets diminishing returns (immovable object). Something has to give. You will increase your upgrades though, albeit ever so slowly.

Try it. I've been doing it for nearly 15 years to one degree or another. Just fired off another small invoice today as a matter of fact. I'll try to remember to post details when the grades come in.
_________________________
#1 in 1959 Topps. Officially known as Assassin according to stanthemanfan 3/31/2014 and god of minor league basketball according to cammb.

Top
#1456960 - 11/30/06 07:50 PM Re: Condtradiction when it comes to getting cards bumped. [Re: bbo]
bbo
The Collectinator


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3374
Loc: Top of the 1959 Registry

Offline
Oh, and be sure to send your flips back so they can keep the pop reports updated. If you do that, Miss Karma says some of those 80's will get bumped up to 84's, which is where they belonged in the first place. Even if you lose one that drops to a 70, you will justify your actions by the new 86's and 84's you score.
_________________________
#1 in 1959 Topps. Officially known as Assassin according to stanthemanfan 3/31/2014 and god of minor league basketball according to cammb.

Top
#1456961 - 11/30/06 07:54 PM Re: Condtradiction when it comes to getting cards bumped. [Re: samsammy23]
bbo
The Collectinator


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3374
Loc: Top of the 1959 Registry

Offline
Quote:

It seems like if you don't and you resubmit a card, you're saying that you have a better eye than the so-called experts.




One more thing, in direct response to the above, YOU BETCHA. They're my cards, I acquired them for a reason. I should know what the grade is. Now give it to me or I'll just have to continue to line your pockets with grading fees until I get what I deserve.
_________________________
#1 in 1959 Topps. Officially known as Assassin according to stanthemanfan 3/31/2014 and god of minor league basketball according to cammb.

Top
Page 1 of 1 1


Moderator:  EARLSWORLD 
Hop to:
Who's Online
0 registered and 2 anonymous users online.
Newest Members
klmnop450123, abcdef863349, vwxyz{570399, nopqrs004715, tjf092071
1963 Registered Users

Generated in 0.017 seconds in which 0.001 seconds were spent on a total of 15 queries. Zlib compression disabled.