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#155633 - 07/05/03 06:44 AM Ticket Grading - huh?
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
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Loc: Austin, TX

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Hi everyone --

In several of the more recent SCDs, I've noticed that PSA plans to create a new service targeting collectors of full tickets and ticket stubs. Graded tickets!!??!!

Is there a market that justifies ticket grading? I mean, I know there are a lots of ticket collectors out there, but how expansive could it be? Are there "ticket collecting" publications? Price Guides? Are there "ticket grading experts" that PSA would employ?

Is this a desperation move by PSA?


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#155634 - 07/05/03 03:18 PM Re: Ticket Grading - huh? *DELETED* [Re: deadlyembrace]
MW1
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#155635 - 07/05/03 03:42 PM Re: Ticket Grading - huh? [Re: MW1]
deadlyembrace
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Registered: 06/19/02
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Z - i - i - i - i - i - i - ng !!!

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#155636 - 07/08/03 01:40 PM Re: Ticket Grading - huh? [Re: deadlyembrace]
tegelaar
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Registered: 01/03/03
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Loc: Boston

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Dumb idea - not enough of a market.
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#155637 - 07/10/03 04:22 PM Re: Ticket Grading - huh? [Re: deadlyembrace]
cicamen
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Registered: 03/12/03
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That is ridiculous. Are people going to make the ticket tearers wear gloves so they dont get fingerprints on the ticket. Make sure the ticket tearer tears it straight down so it doesnt miscut. They are going to have to do that if someone wanted to actually get a mint condition ticket and actually go to the game. I know when I go to a game I just grab the ticket and it gets folded up and crumpled up in my pocket.
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#155638 - 07/10/03 05:26 PM Re: Ticket Grading - huh? [Re: cicamen]
wrigleyfield
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Most people back in the 1930s through the 1970s would have considered the grading of baseball cards an absurd idea. Kids in the 1950s would have said why would you want to grade a baseball card that goes in my bicycle spokes. I am no fan of PSA, but a perfectly ripped ticket stub that is not creased or wrinkled may be a rare find. Most people today see no point or value in preserving the condition of their ticket stubs - they just crumple them and put them in their pockets (me included) - which is what could make the "mint condition" stubs valuable in the future. Kids in the 1950s and 1960s had the same attitude about baseball cards - into the bicylce spokes they go. One can never tell.
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#155639 - 07/11/03 04:38 AM Re: Ticket Grading - huh? [Re: wrigleyfield]
deadlyembrace
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About a year ago, I was talking to my father-in-law about the 1960 World Series. He was a Pittsburg resident, at the time, and had gone to two of the games ... including Game 7 that featured Bill Maz's series winning HR vs. the Yankees.

He mentioned that he thought he still had a program from the series and went rummaging around in his attic for awhile. He returned with a series program and, from between the pages, out tumbles two perfectly torn ticket stubs.

Both are in flawless, mint condition (IMHO), but I'm not sure how you would grade a ticket. There are no tears, folds, surface imperfections or beer spilled on it (... which, he says, is a miracle in itself). These tickets are beautiful and, if you're a baseball fan, embody the historical significance of one of baseball's shining moments.

Presently, each ticket resides between two large lucite slabs and are proudly displayed in his living room. And he's very fond of recounting his memories of the series for anyone willing to sit and listen.

So what are the chances that he would get the tickets graded by PSA?

Zero!!

It would diminish the treasure that he already has.

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#155640 - 07/11/03 06:31 AM Re: Ticket Grading - huh? [Re: deadlyembrace]
srs1a
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Registered: 08/15/02
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DE, I think you are right on.

I have 2 ticket stubs that mean alot to me -- one was a NY Yankees old-timers game that my father took my brother and I to in the late 60's. The stars on the field were amazing. In the game that followed, the Yanks played the Twins and lost 3-2. Mantle hit 2 homers -- on right handed, one left handed. The next day, the headline was Twins 3, Mantle 2. AWESOME! I still have the program (with my attempt at scoring the game) and a tattered ticket stub. Would I ever get this thing slabbed -- no way...who cares what someone else thinks of the stub?

The other one is a WS game from the early 70's ('72, I think, Baltimore and Pittsburgh). Clemente's final season. Pittsburgh was down 3 games to 1, the game was in Baltimore. The Pirates won and won the series. Clemente made a play that you often see in highlights -- a deep shot to right field...everyone thinks is is a homer...but he gets it on the warning track and fires a bullet to the plate to double up the runner tagging from third. AWESOME!!! No HR, a double play, instead. Actually, we were on the first base side, so we couldn't see the catch or throw....the ball disappeared into the corner then reappeared like a rifle shot....we saw the rest on TV. AWESOME, anyway.

BTW, I think the above descriptions are accurate...if not, they are my memories.

I would never have these things slabbed -- the value is in the memories...a grade is a stupid idea (IHMO).

Scott

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#155641 - 07/11/03 12:07 PM Re: Ticket Grading - huh? [Re: srs1a]
buttermarc
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Registered: 07/10/03
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Can it be any worse than grading Honus Wagner reprint cards ad nauseum? Every grading company has chosen to grade otherwise stupid ideas. PSA thinks there is a market out there. Let them pursue the path -- if it works, great. If not, it will be on a long list of bad ideas that never panned out -- by PSA and many others.


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#155642 - 07/11/03 03:05 PM Re: Ticket Grading - huh? *DELETED* [Re: buttermarc]
MW1
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#155643 - 07/11/03 03:57 PM Re: Ticket Grading - huh? [Re: MW1]
wrigleyfield
Collector is an understatement.


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If encapsulating a ticket stub removes the memories, the same could and is said about the encapsulating of baseball cards. The grading of baseball cards is primarily motiviated by MONEY - there is a demand for the service and money to be made. No matter how good someone may think grading baseball cards is for the hobby, they will not do it unless they think they can turn a profit. Maybe there is a demand for ticket grading and maybe there is not - I have no idea. But the concept is no more "absurd" than grading a baseball card.
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#155644 - 07/11/03 05:04 PM Re: Ticket Grading - huh? [Re: wrigleyfield]
MW1
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Quote:

If encapsulating a ticket stub removes the memories, the same could and is said about the encapsulating of baseball cards.



I'm not sure that I agree. Many vintage collectors see baseball cards as miniature pieces of art -- objects that are inherently fragile and often, in need of protection. Also, kids (& adults) have been swapping and trading baseball cards for the last half-century (at least). I don't think the same can be said for tickets and ticket stubs. From what I've seen, there is little or no current demand for the grading of tickets. I just don't see where this proposal is coming from if money (and a declining market share for PSA) isn't a PRIMARY motivation. It's a cheap gimmick, nothing else.

Quote:

The grading of baseball cards is primarily motiviated by MONEY - there is a demand for the service and money to be made.



I'm not going to disagree with you here. When PSA graded its very first card -- the T206 Honus Wagner -- there was quite a bit at stake, financially speaking. I don't think there is any question that grading companies would like to make money. The proper encapsulation of vintage sports cards does serve other purposes, however, including those of authentication and independent evaluation (grading).

Quote:

But the concept is no more "absurd" than grading a baseball card.



With baseball cards, you have a finite number of issues. With tickets, the number of manufacturers and variations in printing methods is seemingly limitless. The knowledge base required to properly grade all tickets and ticket stubs would literally DWARF the expertise necessary to grade sports cards. Here's but one example of that daunting task....any ideas? I challenge anyone to tell me what game this was:


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#155645 - 07/11/03 05:48 PM Re: Ticket Grading - huh? [Re: MW1]
wrigleyfield
Collector is an understatement.


Registered: 12/08/02
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Maybe there is not the necessary knowledge base to correctly grade and authenticate tickets (who knows), and of course people have not been trading ticket stubs like they have baseball cards, but if there are people who collect ticket stubs then grading them (if there is sufficient knowledge about tickets - which might be obtainable by talking to major leage baseball and various teams) could serve the same purpose it serves for baseball cards.

Baseball cards have no inherent value, and neither do ticket stubs once the game they admit you to is over. If people are willing to pay money for ticket stubs from 20 years ago or 2 years ago like they are for baseball cards then ticket stubs will have a collectible value, if not, then they will not. If they have a collectible value, then grading them (if it can be done properly) is just as reasonable as grading sportscards.

I do not collect ticket stubs and have no interest in doing so.


Edited by wriglefield (07/11/03 05:54 PM)
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#155646 - 07/11/03 10:33 PM Re: Ticket Grading - huh? [Re: wrigleyfield]
Vintagedeputy
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Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 469
Loc: Richmond, Va.

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I'd like to ring in with my two cents, first let me start by saying that I HATE PSA. Now, with that off my chest (I feel better), let me toss in an opinion. A few months ago when I saw that PSA was going to start grading the autograph on a card as well as the card, I thought they were stretching things. Trying to find a market niche is nice, but not if it reaches the level of absurdity. To think that people who can't grade a card correctly would even attempt to grade an autograph is crazy. Now, if that wasn't far reaching enough, we're talking about ticket stubs. The piece of paper left over that's meant to be tossed away. I also think grading "unopened packs" is silly, but that's another subject.
A few years ago, I spotted 2 stubs in an antique store. 2 1957 Senators stubs for a game against the Red Sox. One stub was nice and one was slightly tattered. I bought the stubs and after some searching, found a fellow who produced a photo copy of that game's box score. Ted Williams went 1-4 and the Sox beat the Senators easily. No surprise there. I poured over Williams stats and counted hits to see if that 1 hit in 1957 was significant (#2000, #2500 etc). It wasn't. I mounted the stubs and the boxscore in a clear piece of lucite which can be positioned different ways. A truly neat collectible.

To see those stubs in slabs with a red PSA label and to know that a father and son seeing Williams for the first time would never hold the stubs again and marvel at Williams' hit that day..........now that, would be a crime. Sometimes memories are created, as well as experienced.

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