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#1791822 - 07/16/07 05:53 AM PSA trim job miscreant is at it again
bbo
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It appears the eBay seller, scottsusor had an invoice that popped. His latest one appears to be in-line with his results from earlier this year.

If you do a cert check on the following 120 consecutive PSA cert numbers, you will find:

40623615 - 40623734: 31 out of 120 trimmed -26%

15 out of 15 trimmed on 1971's!!!

The rest of the invoice isn't very impressive either. Not too many 9's, mostly 8's, and a lot of lesser grades. He has some of those up on eBay now.

My only question is, "Did PSA catch all the trimmed cards or did some slip through to be holdered that shouldn't have been?"
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#1792911 - 07/16/07 05:09 PM Re: PSA trim job miscreant is at it again [Re: bbo]
FYS
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 Originally Posted By: bbo


My only question is, "Did PSA catch all the trimmed cards or did some slip through to be holdered that shouldn't have been?"


I am not sure if PSA can actually detect trimmed cards. I think part of their business plan is to simply reject a large percentage of cards as trimmed or not meeting size requirements just because the clones are stupid enough to resubmit.

The above would be the only explanation that would make sense regarding this situation. For them to continue to allow someone with that many rejections time and time again does not make sense unless they simply work on rejection quotas.
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#1793515 - 07/17/07 03:36 AM Re: PSA trim job miscreant is at it again [Re: FYS]
bbo
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For professional grading companies to truly add value to the hobby, shouldn't they have a policy on "policing" submitters? Let's say a submitter consistently submits cards that are rejected for trimming, restoration, etc., maybe 10% of an invoice. Perhaps a letter detailing such a fact and warning the customer that if that continues, he will lose his privilege to submit cards. If it continues, reject all future submissions. Refuse to do business with their ilk.

Card doctors are severely damaging the hobby for the sake of cheating someone out of a few bucks. And he's not just cheating the person who buys the altered card that passed through the graders. A chop-specialist who trims a 7 in an effort to make it an 8 or 9, but is caught and it is rejected for trimming, is depriving a near mint collector of a card for his collection. Every card he chops removes an otherwise collectible card from circulation. For those who've been keeping score at home, scottsusor has accumulated hundreds of rejected "evidence of trimming" cards being sent back to his address by PSA. Maybe that's what he collects and he's working on a set. Seriously though, where do those cards end up?

Altering cards may not be a federal offense (like altering currency is), but it certainly is immoral and unethical. Those who practice it will get their due recompense someday, aka "karma" in some circles.
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#1 in 1959 Topps. Officially known as Assassin according to stanthemanfan 3/31/2014 and god of minor league basketball according to cammb.

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#1796862 - 07/18/07 07:36 PM Re: PSA trim job miscreant is at it again [Re: bbo]
FYS
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Susor is a small fish in regards to cards submitted and thus in the scheme of things, it is not financially sound or a good use of PSA's time to curb this damaging and fraudulent behavior. I am sure they are much more stringent on the bigger fish.

I would wager that Susor has given detailed explanations for all of your finds on the PSA(LTS) board. I would be interested in his side of the story. Your continued evidence does not look favorable. For such a rightous group of individuals (PSA-LTS), I would assume they would have banned Susor unless he had a objective and proper answer to your findings. If they have not banned him, one can only assume that your findings are wrong.


Edited by FYS (07/18/07 07:37 PM)
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#1797333 - 07/19/07 06:04 AM Re: PSA trim job miscreant is at it again [Re: FYS]
bbo
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 Originally Posted By: FYS
I would wager that Susor has given detailed explanations for all of your finds on the PSA(LTS) board. I would be interested in his side of the story. Your continued evidence does not look favorable. For such a rightous group of individuals (PSA-LTS), I would assume they would have banned Susor unless he had a objective and proper answer to your findings. If they have not banned him, one can only assume that your findings are wrong.


Or perhaps the members of the secret society PSA-LTS club are hypocrites. They can look reasonable evidence in the face and deny it exists. (I recall the child's fairy tale, The Emporer Has No Clothes, where no one had the guts to announce the obvious.)

Equally damaging to the hobby problem as card doctors is the flawed belief/concept that a professional grading company can be experts in catching doctored and trimmed cards. What percentage do they actually catch? What percentage would have to slip by to discredit the professional graders enough that people would reject their services? 1%? 5%? 10%.

Alas, we may never know the answer to these burning questions.
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#1 in 1959 Topps. Officially known as Assassin according to stanthemanfan 3/31/2014 and god of minor league basketball according to cammb.

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#1798451 - 07/19/07 05:30 PM Re: PSA trim job miscreant is at it again [Re: bbo]
jackstraw
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Why would one be considered "stupid" for resubmitting a card? I have resubmitted many cards to PSA and SGC and I think I was sorry only once. Of course I don't do this for a living so its on a much smaller scale but I would say "smart" if it works into their favor ?
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#1798663 - 07/19/07 07:19 PM Re: PSA trim job miscreant is at it again [Re: jackstraw]
FYS
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 Originally Posted By: jackstraw
Why would one be considered "stupid" for resubmitting a card?


Some amount of resubmitting of already slabbed cards is normal e.g. attempt to get bumps for strong cards. I was talking about people that send in cards from packs they personally opened and get back 10%+ as "do not meet minimum size requirement" and they then spend money again to try to get them holdered, when they know they are ok, but accept the circumstances.
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#1798676 - 07/19/07 07:26 PM Re: PSA trim job miscreant is at it again [Re: jackstraw]
bbo
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The better question more germaine to this discussion is, would you ever (let alone repeatedly) submit a card of which you had knowledge had been trimmed or otherwise altered for the express purpose of reselling it to a collector? Further, would you do so at a fat profit? For instance, would you buy a NM-7 1965 Whitey Ford, crack it, trim off the left edge, resubmit it for a NMMT-8, then resell it on eBay without disclosing it had been trimmed?

The above scenario may or may not be a hypothetical, depending upon how much research you're willing to do.
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#1 in 1959 Topps. Officially known as Assassin according to stanthemanfan 3/31/2014 and god of minor league basketball according to cammb.

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#1798688 - 07/19/07 07:31 PM Re: PSA trim job miscreant is at it again [Re: bbo]
FYS
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 Originally Posted By: bbo
The better question more germaine to this discussion is, would you ever (let alone repeatedly) submit a card of which you had knowledge had been trimmed or otherwise altered for the express purpose of reselling it to a collector? Further, would you do so at a fat profit? For instance, would you buy a NM-7 1965 Whitey Ford, crack it, trim off the left edge, resubmit it for a NMMT-8, then resell it on eBay without disclosing it had been trimmed?

The above scenario may or may not be a hypothetical, depending upon how much research you're willing to do.


In my book: Card Doctors and child molestors are of the same makeup.
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#1800675 - 07/21/07 03:59 AM Re: PSA trim job miscreant is at it again [Re: FYS]
jackstraw
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I would never trim a card .
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