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#181132 - 08/13/03 06:22 AM They'll be sold - Maybe at a Slight Discount [Re: botn]
Bid more or post more... tough one...

Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1895
Loc: On The Beach....where else!


I would only hope that the examples that we posted in this thread and all others like them will not be purchased by collectors who are holder buyers and will in fact remain in the dealer’s inventory.


You might be over-estimating the knowledge of many of today's collector.
Or you may be under-estimating the greed by some. Let us say the cards you
posted are over-graded (in general) by one full point. If these cards went to
auction on ebay my bet would be that the seller might not realize a Psa
8 price on the cards, but would definitely get a premium over the Psa 7
or nm price for those cards. In essence, the seller is extremely happy with
that outcome. And I bet the buyer is now think he can unload this card
for SMR or even a premium of SMR. And he might! As a dealer in this
case, if you can continue to do this with some of your high end inventory
it sure makes sense to use Psa in these cases. Mix this in with some
of your good (high-end) Psa graded cards and you can make some nice $$$.


At some point it would be great to see PSA be forced to "retire" cards like those but recent history illustrates that this will most likely not happen.

I agree. This would not happen. First, grading is subjective so anyone
can argue that these cards are good or bad. It's all an opinion. I think
grading is the best thing that happened for the hobby (at least for me).
However, grading has caused many people to second guess their own
opinions on a card. There is a Psa 8 1953 Gene Woodling red man
card on ebay right now. The seller is a good guy. It's graded an eight
but I wouldn't buy that card. I saw a couple people look at the card and
say "WOW! That's nice" Not to me. So I did not buy it. I would do the
same in any company's holder!

The second reason why Psa would not "retire" cards like the ones in your
example is because it would be suicide. They are a public company.
This would bring the stock down. Way down! I would never hire anyone
on Psa's/CU's management team that would cause this to happen. It
would be a terrible business decision. Idiotic at best.



#181133 - 09/12/03 12:49 PM Re: They'll be sold - Maybe at a Slight Discount [Re: aconte]
Just got here

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 4


Whether your buying 81 topps or redmans always buy the card and not
the holder.

This is my first post over here. These are my pet peaves, myself being
more of a seller and buyer of modern cards and piddle in 65 fb. Why is
it I rarely get a good solid card from a major submitter then when I buy
from joe blow that only submitted 20 cards it always seems to be undergraded.

65 fb out of my subs of 100 cards 65 7's 23 8's and the rest 6's. Ok they
grade these tough. Only 17 9's were graded at the time. As of today in
one years time were sitting at 55. I've stole a few here and there only
to come to the conclusion maybe maybe a 9. I've bought over 50 8's in the
past year still with nothing that matches my 8's let alone 7's. I've been
appauled on how 70-30 has now squeaked into an 8 holder along with 3
visible touches not even with the loupe.

Now for the poor modern collectors 70-80's boys the range on the 9's can
be anything from a 7 to a 9 pd. These guys buying slabs to think they will
have something in return is a farse. Now if your going through your own
submissions and are a very picky person someone will want your cards I've
came to that conclusion after selling of 2 85% sets in high grade and have
done quite well on both. Yet you must know some folks ie team set collector
and so on.

I feel the 70s' market is glutted with overgraded cards and it's a fact. Dealers
getting the 4.00 rate only to have grader rifle down the invoice entering 8,9,10
at a percentage that always remains within 2% no matter what you send them.
I myself have graded over 8000 cards in late 70's and early 80's and never fails,
15% 10's 5% 8's and rest being 9's with no ryme or reason of what the card
yields. Beancounters anyone.

One story that I find disturbing is a large submitter said no to about 2000 late
70's only to have another large submitter say I'll take them only to see them on
ebay a month later in guess what psa 9 fashion.

Just my 2 cents

Aka Unknown

#181134 - 09/12/03 01:47 PM Re: They'll be sold - Maybe at a Slight Discount [Re: CONFUSED]
I am gonna miss that car.

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 215
Loc: San Antonio, TX

I do think that PSAs ability to accurately grade vintage cards has declined somewhat, however minor; but I recently brought a PSA 8 1959 Clemente and a PSA 7 1969 Clemente, and a PSA 5 OPC Gretzky Rookie. I took the cards out of the slabs (and no I didn't damage the cards), and submitted raw to GAI. My results were a GAI 7 for the 1959, GAI 5 for the 1969 and a GAI 3 for the Gretzky. I can tell you when I rec'd the PSA cards in the mail that I brought over e-bay, I was disappointed to say the least. The rest of the cards crossed over, but they were minor vintage rookies and commons. Bottom line: I got burned on the high value cards.

Only 1 card was upgraded from a PSA 6 to a GAI 7 and that was a 71 Alex Delvecchio card submitted raw.

I am seriously considering buying only GAI and SGC over the Internet. I will buy a PSA card (or SCD, BVG) if i can physically examine it.
Always looking for GAI,SGC,PSA vintage Hockey and Boxing.

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