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#1978951 - 01/04/09 01:38 PM My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame
The elder
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What is your opinion on the hall of fame? I think its a sham myself. There are some great players that should be in that are not.
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#1978953 - 01/04/09 01:40 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
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Rose should be considered. That is my main issue. I grew up watching the latter part of the big red machine and it breaks my heart to not see him in there..........
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#1978954 - 01/04/09 01:41 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: Blackie]
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AGREED!!
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#1978956 - 01/04/09 01:42 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
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Who else do you think besides Pete?
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#1978957 - 01/04/09 01:43 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: Blackie]
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Did they let shoeless joe jackson in even after the black sox scandal?
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#1978958 - 01/04/09 01:49 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: Blackie]
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 Originally Posted By: Blackie
Who else do you think besides Pete?


These guys should have made it in years ago:

Pete Rose
Joe Jackson
Dave Parker
Bert Blyleven
Jim Rice

I dont know about Dick Allen, but i do know there are a lot of people who think he should be in as well.
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#1978959 - 01/04/09 01:57 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
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Oh yeah...........Jim Rice. Im tracking with ya. What ya think about Bonds? Just curious of your opinion
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#1978962 - 01/04/09 02:10 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: Blackie]
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I think Bonds is one of the best players ever. But of course alot of people will disagree because of his steroid use.
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#1978965 - 01/04/09 02:17 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
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Yes, I agree but the steriod use made me think different on him. I would rather see a guy like rose than a juicer like bonds. Just my opinion.
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#1978976 - 01/04/09 06:30 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: Blackie]
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It has its problems, but it is by far the best Hall of Fame as far as player selection is concerned. I think anybody that played in an All-Star games will eventually get into the Football and Basketball HOF.
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#1978979 - 01/04/09 09:18 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: FYS]
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I think the baseball hall of fame is the worst after the rock and roll hall of fame imo.
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#1978989 - 01/05/09 08:46 AM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: FYS]
bbo
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Rose cheated the game. Every clubhouse in America has posted in plain English, "No gambling." It was to preserve the integrity of the game after the Black Sox scandal almost killed the sport in 1919. Babe Ruth saved it. He had his faults, but was never accused of cheating the game. Mantle had his faults, but never cheated the game. Rose did. He bet on baseball while managing. Ty Cobb was a scoundrel, Steve Carlton was anti-media, Reggie Jackson was an arrogant imbecile. They all got in.

Pete Rose should never get in as long as he is alive. I would consider it posthumously, but not while he is alive to "enjoy" it. Find another hero and move on. Rose did.
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#1978990 - 01/05/09 09:36 AM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: bbo]
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Good points
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#1978997 - 01/05/09 03:36 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: bbo]
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 Originally Posted By: bbo
Rose cheated the game. Every clubhouse in America has posted in plain English, "No gambling." It was to preserve the integrity of the game after the Black Sox scandal almost killed the sport in 1919. Babe Ruth saved it. He had his faults, but was never accused of cheating the game. Mantle had his faults, but never cheated the game. Rose did. He bet on baseball while managing. Ty Cobb was a scoundrel, Steve Carlton was anti-media, Reggie Jackson was an arrogant imbecile. They all got in.

Pete Rose should never get in as long as he is alive. I would consider it posthumously, but not while he is alive to "enjoy" it. Find another hero and move on. Rose did.


I have never been a Pete Rose fan nor a reds fan. I do think however that Rose has suffered enough punishment and its time to let him in. Yes i think what he did was wrong, but there are other players that cheated that are in the hall.
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#1979007 - 01/06/09 07:30 AM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
bbo
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 Originally Posted By: The elder
 Originally Posted By: bbo
Rose cheated the game. Every clubhouse in America has posted in plain English, "No gambling." It was to preserve the integrity of the game after the Black Sox scandal almost killed the sport in 1919. Babe Ruth saved it. He had his faults, but was never accused of cheating the game. Mantle had his faults, but never cheated the game. Rose did. He bet on baseball while managing. Ty Cobb was a scoundrel, Steve Carlton was anti-media, Reggie Jackson was an arrogant imbecile. They all got in.

Pete Rose should never get in as long as he is alive. I would consider it posthumously, but not while he is alive to "enjoy" it. Find another hero and move on. Rose did.


I have never been a Pete Rose fan nor a reds fan. I do think however that Rose has suffered enough punishment and its time to let him in. Yes i think what he did was wrong, but there are other players that cheated that are in the hall.


Oh, so as long as everyone else is doing it, it's OK. Is that how you treat your kids when they come home and say their friends are doing drugs, shoplifting or sassing their teachers?

Glad we got that cleared up. Welcome to the Hall, Pete.
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#1979009 - 01/06/09 02:37 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: bbo]
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Its the same with the steroid era issue. If you let one in then you have to let the rest in. If Rose is not allowed in, then take the rest of the cheaters out.
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#1979010 - 01/06/09 04:00 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
bbo
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No, you don't have to "let the rest in." Stop now. Pass a rule, law or create a policy. Cheaters are not allowed.

As for those already in who cheated, who would that be?
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#1979012 - 01/06/09 04:59 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: bbo]
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And while were at it, keep the fuel costs down!
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#1979019 - 01/06/09 09:07 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: bbo]
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 Originally Posted By: bbo
No, you don't have to "let the rest in."


Oh i see. Double standard huh?
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#1979035 - 01/07/09 08:28 AM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
bbo
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I'm still waiting for you to name a cheater who is in.
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#1979042 - 01/07/09 03:11 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: bbo]
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Don Drysdale and Gaylord Perry has admitted to throwing spitballs. A pitch which was banned in 1920.

At least Rose never cheated on the field.
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#1979047 - 01/07/09 06:18 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
bbo
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Is that the best argument you've got?

Spitballs, when caught, meant ejection from the game that day, on the spot. Just like Brett and his pine tar bat. Do you revoke his HOF status?

What about throwing beanballs? Drysdale and Gibson did that. Do you revoke their status for that?

Gambling, as every player knew, meant potential suspension or ejection from the sport because it threatened the integrity of the game. Spitballs, beanballs and pine tar are part of the game for which umpires could police. Gambling, not so.

Next.
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#1979051 - 01/07/09 07:43 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: bbo]
The elder
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What a lame answer.

No I dont think Brett or those other guys should be thrown out. You're the biased one who thinks one cheater deserves to be in, and the other out lol. Wow, Rose gambled. Big deal. I think its much worse if a player had to cheat on the field to get into the hall, than what Rose did. I'm sure there are plenty of other players who did the same thing but never ruined the integrity of the game. The only difference was Rose got caught. Drugs also can be considered by many as ruining the integrity of the game also. Yet look how many times players like Strawberry, Gooden, and others have been forgiven and had many chances.

If a player kept getting caught for something like spitballs over and over it would be also possible to get a year or life suspension. I dont remember hearing too much about pitchers getting thrown out for spitballs because it was and is hard to police. But cheating is cheating.
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#1979062 - 01/08/09 05:15 AM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
bbo
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Yep, it is. And Rose cheated the integrity of the game by gambling while employed by the sport. The very same crime that nearly killed it in 1919.

Steroids won't kill baseball, because pressure is mounting to curtail it, off the field and on. Without the high profile McGwire, Brady Anderson & Clemens exposures, enforcements by Commissioner Bozo from Milwaukee were practically nil. Left unchecked, it would have done great damage to the game and very well could have killed it. But these clowns, as well as Bonds, will be left out of the Hall of Fame and instead be forever enshrined in the Hall of Shame (as well they should). Some may do time for lying under oath, much like Mr. Rose, the low life cheater, did time. Cheat the game, get banned for life. Cheat the government, do some time.

What your argument exposes is your naivete. What happens on the field can be dealt with by umpires, teammates, opposing players, retaliations, etc. What happens off the field, that damages the sport itself, must be dealt with by permanent suspensions, banishment and the federal courts.

You might want to review the baseball Hall of Fame induction criteria. It's the most stringent of any of the major sports and basically includes a "morals clause."

If that's a lame answer, I pity your employer, because you are overpaid, given your mental acuity.
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#1979063 - 01/08/09 05:49 AM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: bbo]
Blackie
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Wow..........getting a little harsh here folks. Its just a message board. Lets keep it clean and play ball.....
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#1979064 - 01/08/09 10:54 AM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: bbo]
The elder
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 Originally Posted By: bbo

It's the most stringent of any of the major sports and basically includes a "morals clause."



Then what do you call cheating on the field lol? Since you seem to think "some" cheaters deserve to be in the hall and some not.

Rose never hurt the integrity of the game. And saying he did the same thing the white sox did in 1919 is laughable to say the least. He never once threw anything on the field.

Your geek way of thinking, makes me think you are the 40 year old still living in your mother's basement.
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#1979065 - 01/08/09 11:14 AM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
bbo
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 Originally Posted By: The elder
Then what do you call cheating on the field lol? Since you seem to think "some" cheaters deserve to be in the hall and some not.


Cite for me where I said any cheaters deserve to be in the Hall.

I'm saying Rose doesn't deserve to be in because he broke the rules for admission into the Hall.

The players you cite and those I added, broke rules that result in reprimand on the field. No "Hall of Fame" rules were broken.

Besides you're wasting your typing fingers with me. I don't have a vote. Talk to the BBWAA. There's over 500 of them, 375 of which you need to convince on your buddy Rose's behalf.

Good luck with that.
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#1979069 - 01/08/09 01:40 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: bbo]
The elder
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I think he would get voted in if he ever gets the ban revoked.

No doubt the veterans committee would vote him in.
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#1979328 - 01/13/09 07:37 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
bbo
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 Originally Posted By: The elder
I think he would get voted in if he ever gets the ban revoked.

No doubt the veterans committee would vote him in.


Nope, you're wrong.

I was just reminded that Pete Rose is not in the HOF because he willingly signed a document precluding that possibility. The person who kept Rose out is Rose himself. Which proves what a doofuss he is. Oh, and he graduated #242 out of 243 in his high school class. What a shock.
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#1979329 - 01/13/09 08:17 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: bbo]
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That's why i said "if" the ban ever gets lifted? Anythings possible but doesn't look good for Rose.

I couldn't care less about a player's education. The vote should be determined on what the player did on the field. That's it. Out of those 242 people that Rose graduated with, it was Rose who accomplished the most in life with his fame and fortune. How many other people can say "i had more hits than anyone else in the history of the game."
Pete Sampras doesn't have a high school education but he's still very smart and laughing all the way to the bank.
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#1979330 - 01/13/09 08:35 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
Blackie
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Like the Pete response.............good stuff
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#1979334 - 01/14/09 05:27 AM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
bbo
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 Originally Posted By: The elder
The vote should be determined on what the player did on the field.


No, wrong again.

The vote should reflect on one's overall contribution (less detractions) to the game of baseball. You really DO need to study the criteria for enshrinement.

The game is bigger than Pete Rose. To Pete Rose, he is bigger than the game. Face it, flounder, he messed up. He's paying the price and will not make it in until he's gone, if then.

Look at the vote count on McGwire this year. It went down. There are consequences to actions. Sins can be forgiven, but consequences can linger forever.

What other professions are you willing to look the other way in, and reward the perps? How about IRS agents who don't pay their taxes? Police officers who are on the take with the mob? Pardon Jeff Skilling and make him CEO again? Treason for congressmen? I'll bet you think Clinton's shenanighans were only about sex. His lying to a Federal judge, under oath made him what, a great president? No, it got him impeached and that will never be expunged from the record.
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#1979350 - 01/14/09 10:50 AM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: bbo]
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bbo ~

I just want to chime in here for a moment and add something to your statement about "There are consequences to actions. Sins can be forgiven, but consequences can linger forever." This, I'm afraid is the crux to the whole issue. In considering the matter of any rogue action no matter how small or how big, the CONSEQUENCES for one's actions carry a liability that may or may not follow that person around for the rest of their lives or into eternity. Forgiveness can never make one forget the rogue action, it can only put it behind those doing the forgiving. I am caught between the two with Rose. As a naive kid growing up loving baseball and players like Rose, I was oblivious to their personal lives or the things they did or who they were as regular people. And I really didn't care - I just loved them because they were my "heroes" and only seeing each as only ball players helped me to put blinders on or place them on a pedestal of greatness that made me want to emulate. And as an adult, I can see the difference between a naive boys infatuation with his heroes and the reality in which life intersects. I still love Pete Rose as a player, and as an adult I have forgiven him for what he has done for gambling on baseball. However, the CONSEQUENCES for which his actions have brought he alone has to live with. And the most important consequence of all is never seeing inside of Cooperstown this side of life. I am glad it is not up to me to make that determination! As a fan, I wish what happened, NEVER happened and my "hero" was still the "hero" of my youth, but it will never be....and perhaps nor will his enshrinement. And whatever the choice is made, Pete (and I) will have to live with! Thanks for listening~

EARL
 Originally Posted By: bbo
 Originally Posted By: The elder
The vote should be determined on what the player did on the field.


No, wrong again.

The vote should reflect on one's overall contribution (less detractions) to the game of baseball. You really DO need to study the criteria for enshrinement.

The game is bigger than Pete Rose. To Pete Rose, he is bigger than the game. Face it, flounder, he messed up. He's paying the price and will not make it in until he's gone, if then.

Look at the vote count on McGwire this year. It went down. There are consequences to actions. Sins can be forgiven, but consequences can linger forever.

What other professions are you willing to look the other way in, and reward the perps? How about IRS agents who don't pay their taxes? Police officers who are on the take with the mob? Pardon Jeff Skilling and make him CEO again? Treason for congressmen? I'll bet you think Clinton's shenanighans were only about sex. His lying to a Federal judge, under oath made him what, a great president? No, it got him impeached and that will never be expunged from the record.


Edited by EARLSWORLD (01/14/09 10:52 AM)
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#1979355 - 01/14/09 11:08 AM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: EARLSWORLD]
Blackie
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Earl im in total agreement with you statements.
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#1979367 - 01/14/09 02:27 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: EARLSWORLD]
The elder
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 Originally Posted By: EARLSWORLD
bbo ~

I just want to chime in here for a moment and add something to your statement about "There are consequences to actions. Sins can be forgiven, but consequences can linger forever." This, I'm afraid is the crux to the whole issue. In considering the matter of any rogue action no matter how small or how big, the CONSEQUENCES for one's actions carry a liability that may or may not follow that person around for the rest of their lives or into eternity. Forgiveness can never make one forget the rogue action, it can only put it behind those doing the forgiving. I am caught between the two with Rose. As a naive kid growing up loving baseball and players like Rose, I was oblivious to their personal lives or the things they did or who they were as regular people. And I really didn't care - I just loved them because they were my "heroes" and only seeing each as only ball players helped me to put blinders on or place them on a pedestal of greatness that made me want to emulate. And as an adult, I can see the difference between a naive boys infatuation with his heroes and the reality in which life intersects. I still love Pete Rose as a player, and as an adult I have forgiven him for what he has done for gambling on baseball.
[/quote]

Good post. You and me both have forgiven Rose for his actions off the field. The sad thing is some of the writers who have votes, only vote for the players that they liked as a person, and no respect for what they accomplished on the field. That's the reason why it took Jim Rice so long to get voted it. And its the same reason why Dave Parker gets voted down. He was hated as a person for his arrogance and his past cocaine use, Which he later overcame midway through his career.

There are alot worse human beings in cooperstown than Pete Rose.
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#1979418 - 01/15/09 11:23 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
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Personally, I think the HOF is highly over rated.
While it is true that Rose made some dumb mistakes later in life,
weather or not he is in the cosmetic HOF will not make him any less of the Great player he was on the field. The all-time hit king and the spark plug to the Big Red Machine Dynasty of the 70's and HOF or not All baseball people know that Rose in his playing days is on par with anybody in cooperstown.
To bad he wasn't smart enough to know he wasn't about the game.
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