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#1979330 - 01/13/09 08:35 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
Blackie
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Registered: 12/23/08
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Like the Pete response.............good stuff
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#1979334 - 01/14/09 05:27 AM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
bbo
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Registered: 02/07/06
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 Originally Posted By: The elder
The vote should be determined on what the player did on the field.


No, wrong again.

The vote should reflect on one's overall contribution (less detractions) to the game of baseball. You really DO need to study the criteria for enshrinement.

The game is bigger than Pete Rose. To Pete Rose, he is bigger than the game. Face it, flounder, he messed up. He's paying the price and will not make it in until he's gone, if then.

Look at the vote count on McGwire this year. It went down. There are consequences to actions. Sins can be forgiven, but consequences can linger forever.

What other professions are you willing to look the other way in, and reward the perps? How about IRS agents who don't pay their taxes? Police officers who are on the take with the mob? Pardon Jeff Skilling and make him CEO again? Treason for congressmen? I'll bet you think Clinton's shenanighans were only about sex. His lying to a Federal judge, under oath made him what, a great president? No, it got him impeached and that will never be expunged from the record.
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#1979350 - 01/14/09 10:50 AM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: bbo]
EARLSWORLD Administrator
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Registered: 11/15/08
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bbo ~

I just want to chime in here for a moment and add something to your statement about "There are consequences to actions. Sins can be forgiven, but consequences can linger forever." This, I'm afraid is the crux to the whole issue. In considering the matter of any rogue action no matter how small or how big, the CONSEQUENCES for one's actions carry a liability that may or may not follow that person around for the rest of their lives or into eternity. Forgiveness can never make one forget the rogue action, it can only put it behind those doing the forgiving. I am caught between the two with Rose. As a naive kid growing up loving baseball and players like Rose, I was oblivious to their personal lives or the things they did or who they were as regular people. And I really didn't care - I just loved them because they were my "heroes" and only seeing each as only ball players helped me to put blinders on or place them on a pedestal of greatness that made me want to emulate. And as an adult, I can see the difference between a naive boys infatuation with his heroes and the reality in which life intersects. I still love Pete Rose as a player, and as an adult I have forgiven him for what he has done for gambling on baseball. However, the CONSEQUENCES for which his actions have brought he alone has to live with. And the most important consequence of all is never seeing inside of Cooperstown this side of life. I am glad it is not up to me to make that determination! As a fan, I wish what happened, NEVER happened and my "hero" was still the "hero" of my youth, but it will never be....and perhaps nor will his enshrinement. And whatever the choice is made, Pete (and I) will have to live with! Thanks for listening~

EARL
 Originally Posted By: bbo
 Originally Posted By: The elder
The vote should be determined on what the player did on the field.


No, wrong again.

The vote should reflect on one's overall contribution (less detractions) to the game of baseball. You really DO need to study the criteria for enshrinement.

The game is bigger than Pete Rose. To Pete Rose, he is bigger than the game. Face it, flounder, he messed up. He's paying the price and will not make it in until he's gone, if then.

Look at the vote count on McGwire this year. It went down. There are consequences to actions. Sins can be forgiven, but consequences can linger forever.

What other professions are you willing to look the other way in, and reward the perps? How about IRS agents who don't pay their taxes? Police officers who are on the take with the mob? Pardon Jeff Skilling and make him CEO again? Treason for congressmen? I'll bet you think Clinton's shenanighans were only about sex. His lying to a Federal judge, under oath made him what, a great president? No, it got him impeached and that will never be expunged from the record.


Edited by EARLSWORLD (01/14/09 10:52 AM)
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#1979355 - 01/14/09 11:08 AM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: EARLSWORLD]
Blackie
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Registered: 12/23/08
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Loc: Southern US

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Earl im in total agreement with you statements.
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#1979367 - 01/14/09 02:27 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: EARLSWORLD]
The elder
enthusiast


Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 317

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 Originally Posted By: EARLSWORLD
bbo ~

I just want to chime in here for a moment and add something to your statement about "There are consequences to actions. Sins can be forgiven, but consequences can linger forever." This, I'm afraid is the crux to the whole issue. In considering the matter of any rogue action no matter how small or how big, the CONSEQUENCES for one's actions carry a liability that may or may not follow that person around for the rest of their lives or into eternity. Forgiveness can never make one forget the rogue action, it can only put it behind those doing the forgiving. I am caught between the two with Rose. As a naive kid growing up loving baseball and players like Rose, I was oblivious to their personal lives or the things they did or who they were as regular people. And I really didn't care - I just loved them because they were my "heroes" and only seeing each as only ball players helped me to put blinders on or place them on a pedestal of greatness that made me want to emulate. And as an adult, I can see the difference between a naive boys infatuation with his heroes and the reality in which life intersects. I still love Pete Rose as a player, and as an adult I have forgiven him for what he has done for gambling on baseball.
[/quote]

Good post. You and me both have forgiven Rose for his actions off the field. The sad thing is some of the writers who have votes, only vote for the players that they liked as a person, and no respect for what they accomplished on the field. That's the reason why it took Jim Rice so long to get voted it. And its the same reason why Dave Parker gets voted down. He was hated as a person for his arrogance and his past cocaine use, Which he later overcame midway through his career.

There are alot worse human beings in cooperstown than Pete Rose.
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#1979418 - 01/15/09 11:23 PM Re: My opinion on the Baseball hall of fame [Re: The elder]
BigRedOne
old hand


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1046

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Personally, I think the HOF is highly over rated.
While it is true that Rose made some dumb mistakes later in life,
weather or not he is in the cosmetic HOF will not make him any less of the Great player he was on the field. The all-time hit king and the spark plug to the Big Red Machine Dynasty of the 70's and HOF or not All baseball people know that Rose in his playing days is on par with anybody in cooperstown.
To bad he wasn't smart enough to know he wasn't about the game.
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