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#1979747 - 01/25/09 06:03 AM Re: JEFF KENT RETIRES / IS HE BOUND FOR THE HOF? [Re: FYS]
bbo
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Registered: 02/07/06
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No way on this green earth Kent gets in. Not dominant at all and not popular with the voters.

Although Topps Hertiage 2008 did put him on card #20, which was the Duke's card in the original 1959 set.

I also noticed Pujols got assigned #150, same as Stan-the-Man in 1959.

Nice.
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#1979748 - 01/25/09 08:16 AM Re: JEFF KENT RETIRES / IS HE BOUND FOR THE HOF? [Re: FYS]
EARLSWORLD Administrator
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Hi Mike~ I just needed to cross Billy Williams off your list of non HOF'ers. He was inducted in the CLASS of 1987 after years of being kept out. BILLY WILLAMS - HOF 1987
 Originally Posted By: FYS
Home runs mean so much less in the era he played. Sandberg was an All Star 10 times, gold glove 9 times and a silver slugger 7 times. That is so much more dominant against his peer group than Kent against his peer group. Chicks digging the long ball is very overated. For other big long ballers short of the Hall: Fred McGriff, Jeff Bagwell, Dave Kingman, Andre Dawson, Juan Gonzalez, Billy Williams, Darrel Evans etc.

Other 2nd Basemen As or More Deserving than Kent:

1. Alfonso Soriano (7 Time All Star) - Future HOF
2. Lou Whitaker (5 Time All Star) - Will not get in.
3. Bobby Grich (6 Time All Star)- Will not get in.
4. Roberto Alomar (12 Time All Star)- Future HOF
5. Frank White (5 Time All Star) - Will not get in.
6. Willie Randolph (6 Time All Star) - Will not get in.
7. Steve Sax (6 Time All Star)- Will not get in.
8. Bobby Richardson (8 Time All Star) - Will not get in.

The home runs are nice, but Kent does not hold up against his peers. He falls into the special category with Grich, Whitaker, Randolph etc. Not the HOF'ers with Morgan, Sandberg, Alomar, Biggio etc.


Edited by EARLSWORLD (01/25/09 08:18 AM)
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#1979749 - 01/25/09 08:24 AM BASEBALL HALL OF FAME - COOPERSTOWN'S SHRINE [Re: EARLSWORLD]
EARLSWORLD Administrator
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Come check out the Baseball Hall of Fame's website! Here you'll meet all the players who made it! Very fascinating site!
BASEBALL HALL OF FAME - COOPERSTOWN


Edited by EARLSWORLD (01/25/09 08:25 AM)
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#1979765 - 01/25/09 12:13 PM Re: BASEBALL HALL OF FAME - COOPERSTOWN'S SHRINE [Re: EARLSWORLD]
SMtJoy
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I dont think Kent should get in, a very good player but not a hall of famer. He put up good numbers over a long time period. He was hardly an all star much less dominate.

On the other hand, Biggio should be a first ballot HOFer.

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#1979775 - 01/25/09 03:03 PM Re: JEFF KENT RETIRES / IS HE BOUND FOR THE HOF? [Re: FYS]
The elder
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 Originally Posted By: FYS
.

Other 2nd Basemen As or More Deserving than Kent:

1. Alfonso Soriano (7 Time All Star) - Future HOF
2. Lou Whitaker (5 Time All Star) - Will not get in.
3. Bobby Grich (6 Time All Star)- Will not get in.
4. Roberto Alomar (12 Time All Star)- Future HOF
5. Frank White (5 Time All Star) - Will not get in.
6. Willie Randolph (6 Time All Star) - Will not get in.
7. Steve Sax (6 Time All Star)- Will not get in.
8. Bobby Richardson (8 Time All Star) - Will not get in.



None of those 2nd baseman are more deserving than Kent's. Kent's stats are better than any of those including Alomar's. It would be hard to deny a 2nd baseman who had 377 home runs and over 1,500 RBI. THATS VERY IMPRESSIVE FOR A 2ND BASEMAN. He also had a high slugging of 500.

How many times a player was an all-star should mean very little. There have been players who won the season MVP and wasn't an all-star in the same year. All star voting is for the 1st half of the season only. And usually fans vote on who there favorite player is and not stats. Its just a popularity contest. Every year there are players that should be a all star that are not. And vice versa.
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#1979780 - 01/25/09 03:34 PM Re: JEFF KENT RETIRES / IS HE BOUND FOR THE HOF? [Re: The elder]
BigRedOne
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 Originally Posted By: The elder
 Originally Posted By: FYS
.

Other 2nd Basemen As or More Deserving than Kent:

1. Alfonso Soriano (7 Time All Star) - Future HOF
2. Lou Whitaker (5 Time All Star) - Will not get in.
3. Bobby Grich (6 Time All Star)- Will not get in.
4. Roberto Alomar (12 Time All Star)- Future HOF
5. Frank White (5 Time All Star) - Will not get in.
6. Willie Randolph (6 Time All Star) - Will not get in.
7. Steve Sax (6 Time All Star)- Will not get in.
8. Bobby Richardson (8 Time All Star) - Will not get in.



None of those 2nd baseman are more deserving than Kent's. Kent's stats are better than any of those including Alomar's. It would be hard to deny a 2nd baseman who had 377 home runs and over 1,500 RBI. THATS VERY IMPRESSIVE FOR A 2ND BASEMAN. He also had a high slugging of 500.

How many times a player was an all-star should mean very little. There have been players who won the season MVP and wasn't an all-star in the same year. All star voting is for the 1st half of the season only. And usually fans vote on who there favorite player is and not stats. Its just a popularity contest. Every year there are players that should be a all star that are not. And vice versa.


Hard to argue with "The Elder's" points.

I whole heartedly agree that the All-Star thing is really meaningless. A mear popularity contest that is Highly misleading as to a players worth.
The MVP is also pretty misleading as well.
Kent's numbers clearly put him in.

John
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#1979783 - 01/25/09 03:56 PM Re: JEFF KENT RETIRES / IS HE BOUND FOR THE HOF? [Re: BigRedOne]
EARLSWORLD Administrator
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Hi John~

In part I agree with you and the Elder as far as numbers go and that is the most important factor I believe will be considered when it is his turn to be voted on. However, yes, the status of All-Star is a popularity vote and perhaps MVP misleading, but those are great attributes assigned to HOF caliber players. The only thing that bothers me about Kent and why I am not sure of his place in the Hall is his lack of presence and dominance as a player. When I think about the Johnny Benches, Rod Carews, Brooks Robinsons, Cal Ripkens, Ryne Sandbergs, etc....those names conjure up an image in my mind of greatness. When you mention the name JEFF KENT, I do not have that at all regarding his tenure as a player. My question is, WHY NOT? I could not vote him in based on those merits, The only thing then I have to go on is his 17 years and productivity that even surprises me to see. Hall of Famer or not -- I will leave this one up to the voters!
 Originally Posted By: BigRedOne
 Originally Posted By: The elder
 Originally Posted By: FYS
.

Other 2nd Basemen As or More Deserving than Kent:

1. Alfonso Soriano (7 Time All Star) - Future HOF
2. Lou Whitaker (5 Time All Star) - Will not get in.
3. Bobby Grich (6 Time All Star)- Will not get in.
4. Roberto Alomar (12 Time All Star)- Future HOF
5. Frank White (5 Time All Star) - Will not get in.
6. Willie Randolph (6 Time All Star) - Will not get in.
7. Steve Sax (6 Time All Star)- Will not get in.
8. Bobby Richardson (8 Time All Star) - Will not get in.



None of those 2nd baseman are more deserving than Kent's. Kent's stats are better than any of those including Alomar's. It would be hard to deny a 2nd baseman who had 377 home runs and over 1,500 RBI. THATS VERY IMPRESSIVE FOR A 2ND BASEMAN. He also had a high slugging of 500.

How many times a player was an all-star should mean very little. There have been players who won the season MVP and wasn't an all-star in the same year. All star voting is for the 1st half of the season only. And usually fans vote on who there favorite player is and not stats. Its just a popularity contest. Every year there are players that should be a all star that are not. And vice versa.


Hard to argue with "The Elder's" points.

I whole heartedly agree that the All-Star thing is really meaningless. A mear popularity contest that is Highly misleading as to a players worth.
The MVP is also pretty misleading as well.
Kent's numbers clearly put him in.

John
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#1979793 - 01/25/09 07:11 PM Re: JEFF KENT RETIRES / IS HE BOUND FOR THE HOF? [Re: The elder]
FYS
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Registered: 05/21/04
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 Originally Posted By: The elder
.

None of those 2nd baseman are more deserving than Kent's. Kent's stats are better than any of those including Alomar's. It would be hard to deny a 2nd baseman who had 377 home runs and over 1,500 RBI. THATS VERY IMPRESSIVE FOR A 2ND BASEMAN. He also had a high slugging of 500.

How many times a player was an all-star should mean very little. There have been players who won the season MVP and wasn't an all-star in the same year. All star voting is for the 1st half of the season only. And usually fans vote on who there favorite player is and not stats. Its just a popularity contest. Every year there are players that should be a all star that are not. And vice versa.


My main point is you can not compare today RBI's and Home Runs vs. yesterdays. They are not equal. Home Run's and RBI's alone look impressive, but when Kent is compared against his peer group in the NL he does not cut it. Total all star appearances are a very good indicator of HOF potential. In fact, there is an abosolutely strong correlation. You can argue voting may taint the starting position to some extent, but the backups selections typically make up for this. People get overlooked in one year, but for the HOF'ers one year doesn't matter as they will be making the team 8 - 10 - 12 - 14 times in there career.

The moral of the story, RBI's and Home Runs achieved from 1992-2006 simply mean much less than they did prior.
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#1979800 - 01/25/09 08:13 PM Re: JEFF KENT RETIRES / IS HE BOUND FOR THE HOF? [Re: FYS]
The elder
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 Originally Posted By: FYS
 Originally Posted By: The elder
.

None of those 2nd baseman are more deserving than Kent's. Kent's stats are better than any of those including Alomar's. It would be hard to deny a 2nd baseman who had 377 home runs and over 1,500 RBI. THATS VERY IMPRESSIVE FOR A 2ND BASEMAN. He also had a high slugging of 500.

How many times a player was an all-star should mean very little. There have been players who won the season MVP and wasn't an all-star in the same year. All star voting is for the 1st half of the season only. And usually fans vote on who there favorite player is and not stats. Its just a popularity contest. Every year there are players that should be a all star that are not. And vice versa.


Home Run's and RBI's alone look impressive, but when Kent is compared against his peer group in the NL he does not cut it.


I dont understand how you can think he doesn't stand out with his peers? He hit far more home runs than any other 2nd baseman that played before him and with him during the time he played.

All-star appearances mean very little when determined if a player is a hall of famer. Willie McCovey only appeared in 6 all-stars, and is a 1ST ballot hall of famer.
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#1979802 - 01/25/09 08:37 PM Re: JEFF KENT RETIRES / IS HE BOUND FOR THE HOF? [Re: The elder]
FYS
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 05/21/04
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McCovey had 500 HR's back when 500 Home Runs meant automatic induction. That is no longer the case i.e. McGwire and in the future with Palmerio and potentially Sheffield etc.

Kent had 5 lifetime AS appearances. There are two HOF'ers in the entire history of the HOF with 5 or fewer appearances and they are Robin Yount and Phil Rizzuto. One, that tells me that there is a absolutely strong correlaiton between All Star games appearances and getting into the Hall. So the question becomes, is Jeff Kent good enough to be the third position player in the history of baseball to only have 5 AS appearances, but make it into the Hall?
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