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#1991846 - 12/07/09 10:31 AM I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs!
Irwin Fletcher
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I've mentioned a few times on this board that I am in the process of putting together low to mid-grade SGC Registry Sets of 1933 Goudey and 1935 Goudey. When I started these sets earlier this year, I was frustrated by the lack of SGC graded examples available on eBay in auction format and most sellers (with a few exceptions, such as Joe's Vintage Sportscards) had very unreasonable BIN prices. So I started snatching up PSA 3 and 4 examples through auctions with the intention of crossing them over to SGC. The results so far have not been good. Here they are:

1933 Goudey
#4 Schuble - PSA 3 ---> SGC 30
#9 Harris - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40
#10 Myatt - PSA 4 ---> SGC 40
#13 Thompson - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40
#15 Sorrell - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40
#17 Clark - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40
#18 Ruel - PSA 4 ---> SGC 50
#32 Clancy - PSA 4 ---> SGC 40
#45 Benton - PSA 4 ---> SGC 40
#91 Zachary - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40

1935 Goudey (4-in-1)
Dickey, etc. - PSA 5.5 ---> SGC 70
Brandt, etc. - PSA 5 ---> SGC 60
Cronin, etc. - PSA 5 ---> SGC 50

(Thank goodness the Dickey crossed over)

Out of the 13 PSAs that I submitted for cross-over, 8 received the same grade, 5 were downgraded 1 grade, and zero were upgraded. Not a good showing for PSA and it doesn't give me much confidence in PSA's ability to accurately grade lower-grade prewar cards.

I guess the moral of the story, which I've heard on this board before, is "buy the card, not the holder." Unless, in my opinion, the card is in an SGC holder. It's only SGC-graded, higher grade PSAs, or good-looking raw cards for me going forward.

I guess this has been a good learning experience for me (I'm new to the vintage card thing) as I am taking a much closer look at cards in PSA holders before buying/bidding. It has also affirmed my confidence in SGC's high standards for quality and consistency in grading.

I have a few more '33 cross-overs submitted to SGC - I'll update this post once those have been graded.

Has anyone had similar experiences with crossing over from PSA?



Edited by Irwin Fletcher (12/07/09 10:32 AM)

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#1991848 - 12/07/09 01:28 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Irwin Fletcher]
bbo
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I've actually done well in crossing PSA 1959 baseball. I usually buy 7's and 8's and look them over really well before subbing. If it's a high dollar card, I'll send it in for crossover without cracking out. Commons I usually crack after some tough scrutiny. I get about 75% to upgrade, 20% stay the same and maybe 5% nasty surprises.

But it's all in having a good eye for what will cross/bump. It takes time to get to where you want to be.

I do agree, though, that PSA is horribly inconsistent and frankly unable to render an accurate grade much of the time.
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#1991850 - 12/07/09 01:39 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Irwin Fletcher]
VANSLYKEFAN18
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I've crossed over a decent amount of 1933 Goudey's from PSA to SGC. I think my ratio has been a bit better overall than that, but I do know that more have been downgraded rather than upgraded. SGC gets it right, but as you said it is tougher to find SGC slabs out there. Any pre-war crossover is a gamble, I've been burned a few times.

Again good luck with the 1933 Goudeys, I am sure we will be bidding against each other on quite a few!! \:\)

Rob


Edited by VANSLYKEFAN18 (12/07/09 01:39 PM)

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#1991852 - 12/07/09 02:41 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: VANSLYKEFAN18]
Brian C
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Your results are not at all consistent with my results. I have crossed dozens of cards from SGC to PSA and have consistently had PSA downgrade the cards. In fact I have 3 dozen SGC cards currently sitting at PSA and am awaiting the grades. I will post them here when they come back. Based on what the cards looked like when I cracked them out I expect to get hammered on this crossover. I think there are two likely reasons for this:

1. SGC does not include a qualifier. So, all those hidden MK's that get through SGC don't get through PSA. A real negative in my experience.

2. Everytime a card gets encapsulated, cracked out, packed, mailed, re-graded and re-encapsulated, damage should be expected. I don't care how careful you are, there are a lot of hands touching the cards and things happen. Grades naturally and correctly do drop. In my opinion, if you crack and re-submit you should expect grades to come down. It's not the TPA's fault, it's natural.

When my grades pop from PSA I'll post. Hopefully this week.

Brian


Edited by Brian C (12/07/09 02:43 PM)

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#1991855 - 12/07/09 04:13 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Brian C]
VANSLYKEFAN18
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I think I am missing something. Since PSA uses the "MK" designation, wouldn't marked cards actually grade higher then SGC albeit with a qualifier? IMO I dislike the qualifier because I feel if a card has a stain or mark it should graded overall accordingly...just my two cents.
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#1991856 - 12/07/09 06:28 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Brian C]
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Hi All~

Not to be judgmental in the least, but my experience has been this: I have seen MANY PSA graded NM cards in my quest to collect a high graded 1958 Topps Set. Through that journey and because the short supply of SGC graded cards, many time I have had to turn to PSA graded cards to consider for crossovers. I can tell you, many PSA NM cards have been so over graded...corners mostly. And when I see this I just shake my head and wonder how did they ever get into a PSA 7 slab to begin with? Maybe some of you have experienced that with SGC, but I can tell you I NEVER have...I have nearly 200 slabbed SGC graded cards and every NM card is the same as far as the consistency goes. And if I wished to have them sent to PSA for a crossover grade would they pass...most definitely not? And why? Because grading is subjective to TPA's and it appears the inconsistencies that are found on that side of the street interfere with the objectivity of being able to grade consistently across the board. I know SGC is not perfect by any means, but to insinuate they are flawed because the competition won't uphold their grades just doesn't hold water. However, to each his own when it comes to choice, but for me SGC has proven themselves to be a trusted and consistent grading company that goes the extra mile to get it right! Just my humble opinion!

Earl
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#1991857 - 12/07/09 06:35 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: EARLSWORLD]
VANSLYKEFAN18
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Well said Earl...

I have had the same experiences with PSA slabbed cards vs SGC slabbed cards. The inconsistency with PSA is far worse. I have somewhere between 800-900 cards garded with SGC and would say more than 90% of the time I just about get the grade I was looking for. And most of the times I don't, it turns out to be something i missed.

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#1991859 - 12/07/09 07:32 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: VANSLYKEFAN18]
Irwin Fletcher
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I agree with Earl. Consistency is so important and, in my limited experience, SGC is light years ahead of PSA.

Rob: I got an SGC 50 #20 Bill Terry in the mail today for the '33 Registry Set.

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#1991860 - 12/07/09 07:44 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Irwin Fletcher]
VANSLYKEFAN18
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Good job Irwin, beats the heck out of my SGC 40 #20 Terry \:\)
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#1991863 - 12/07/09 07:58 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: VANSLYKEFAN18]
aconte
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Earl's post is about right from my experiences too.

aconte
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#1991866 - 12/08/09 01:11 AM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: aconte]
castaways
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Good luck with your endeavor on the Goudey sets. I too have recently started collecting a pre-war (T205) set. I have submitted 11 cards that were in PSA holders to SGC (only after cracking them out). I will be sending some in holders this month to take advantage of their monthly special. Out of the 11, 8 transitioned over exactly and 3 had changes .Here are my results:

PSA 3 - SGC A - Reulbach (trimmed)
PSA 1 - SCG 20
PSA 1 - SGC 20

Again good luck.
r/
Frank

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#1991867 - 12/08/09 04:05 AM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: castaways]
Irwin Fletcher
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Frank,

Nice job getting the .5 bumps on those two T205s. And good luck putting together the set. Having been away from the hobby for many years, I'm really having fun putting together the Goudey sets.

I should probably have mentioned that all of my cross-overs have been submitted in their original PSA holders.

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#1991874 - 12/08/09 11:09 AM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Irwin Fletcher]
castaways
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Irwin,

I too had been away for several years. Last collected in the late 80's when I got married. Now I'm a little more stable and was ready to get back into it. I'm currently halfway through the set and have had a blast doing it. Not to mention having these boards available for us collectors to share our experiences and inform others of questionable sellers.

r/
Frank

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#1991881 - 12/08/09 01:48 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: VANSLYKEFAN18]
Irwin Fletcher
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I agree about the PSA qualifiers - I am not a fan. The card should grade based on all of its characteristics. If an otherwise nice card gets downgraded due to a mark, that's the way it should be.
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#1991922 - 12/09/09 01:00 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Irwin Fletcher]
Brian C
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Results are back on my SGC to PSA crossover. These were logged at PSA on 12/1/09 and grades popped today on 12/9/09. 8 day turnaround for a $5 special is just fine in my book. Now we'll see how long Registered Mail takes to get the cards back in my hands during the XMAS season. I'm thinking it might be a while but who knows. In general results are fairly consistent between companies. Some things stand out though. Here are the results, comments to follow:

HOME RUN BAKER SGC 30 PSA 2 0
NEAL BALL SGC 40 PSA 3 0
SHAD BARRY SGC 30 PSA 3 MK 0 now with qualifier
JACK BASTIAN SGC 40 PSA 3 0
JOHNNY BATES SGC 40 PSA 2.5 -0.5
BEALS BECKER SGC 40 PSA 4 1
JAKE BECKLEY SGC 30 PSA 2 0
BILL BRADLEY SGC 40 PSA 3 0
BILL BRADLEY SGC 40 PSA 3.5 0.5
PETER CASSIDY SGC 40 PSA 2.5 -0.5
MICKEY DOOLAN SGC 40 PSA 3 0
GUS DORNER SGC 40 PSA 4 1
KID ELBERFELD SGC 40 PSA 4 1
JOHN HUMMEL SGC 30 PSA 3 1
RUBE KISINGER SGC 40 PSA 3 0
SHERRY MAGEE SGC 40 PSA 3 0
DOC MARSHALL SGC 40 PSA 4.5 1.5
PRYOR McELVEEN SGC 50 PSA 4 0
DAN McGANN SGC 40 PSA 2.5 -0.5
HARRY McINTYRE SGC 50 PSA 3.5 -0.5
CHIEF MEYERS SGC 60 PSA 4.5 -0.5
GEORGE MULLIN SGC 40 PSA 4 1
TOM NEEDHAM SGC 40 PSA 3 0
RUBE OLDRING SGC 50 PSA 2 -2
ORVAL OVERALL SGC 40 PSA 2 -1
FRANCIS PFEFFER SGC 40 PSA 3 0
ED REULBACH SGC 40 PSA 3.5 0.5
LOU RITTER SGC 40 PSA 4 1
BOSS SCHMIDT SGC 40 PSA 3 0
CY SEYMOUR SGC 30 EOT -2 What? SGC slabbed a trimmed card?
JEFF SWEENEY SGC 40 PSA 2 -1
LEE TANNEHILL SGC 40 PSA 5 2
JESSE TANNEHILL SGC 40 PSA 3 0
DOC WHITE SGC 40 PSA 3 0
JIMMY WILLIAMS GAI 3 PSA 3.5 0.5

The bad. Got one card back EOT. I did not have time to really look at the card before it went to PSA but I can assure I did not trim it once I took it out of the SGC holder. I'll have to take a good look at it when it comes back.

Only one card came back with a qualifier. Technically the grades are identical (PSA 3 MK = PSA 2 = SGC 30) but I prefer cards with NQ so this one will be replaced. I prefer that PSA tells me there is a problem with the card. SGC "hides" this fact by not stating the reason for the SGC 30. It's OK to disagree on this point but I prefer having more information rather than less.

One card dropped 2 grades. SGC 50 to a PSA 2. Could this be the famous Crack and Resubmit Business model at work? Again, I need to get the card back in hand.

One card dropped 1 grade. SGC 40 to PSA 2.

Five cards dropped 0.5 grade. Kind of. Since SGC doesn't have a half point system we can't really compare apples to apples. The grades are lower though.

The Good:

2 cards went up 0.5 grade. Kind of again. See above. One additional card went up 0.5 that was originally a GAI card.

6 cards went up 1 grade.

1 cards went up 1.5 grade. SGC 40 to PSA 4.5

1 card went up 2 grades. SGC 40 to PSA 5

Only 15 of the 35 cards came back truly identical grades.

Comments? Grades were higher than I expected.

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#1991933 - 12/09/09 05:31 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Brian C]
VANSLYKEFAN18
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Good info Brian!!

I would expect that PSA would typically grade higher than SGC, so the results do not shock me.

I respect your opinion about the qualifier, however I do not think SGC is "hiding" anything. They will always explain why a card graded they way it did. And then if you choose to re-sell, of course the information should be disclosed. Just my opinion.

Congrats on the grades, keep posting your results!!

Thanks - Rob

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#1991938 - 12/09/09 06:12 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Irwin Fletcher]
EARLSWORLD Administrator
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 Originally Posted By: Irwin Fletcher
I've mentioned a few times on this board that I am in the process of putting together low to mid-grade SGC Registry Sets of 1933 Goudey and 1935 Goudey. When I started these sets earlier this year, I was frustrated by the lack of SGC graded examples available on eBay in auction format and most sellers (with a few exceptions, such as Joe's Vintage Sportscards) had very unreasonable BIN prices. So I started snatching up PSA 3 and 4 examples through auctions with the intention of crossing them over to SGC. The results so far have not been good. Here they are:

1933 Goudey
#4 Schuble - PSA 3 ---> SGC 30
#9 Harris - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40
#10 Myatt - PSA 4 ---> SGC 40
#13 Thompson - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40
#15 Sorrell - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40
#17 Clark - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40
#18 Ruel - PSA 4 ---> SGC 50
#32 Clancy - PSA 4 ---> SGC 40
#45 Benton - PSA 4 ---> SGC 40
#91 Zachary - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40

1935 Goudey (4-in-1)
Dickey, etc. - PSA 5.5 ---> SGC 70
Brandt, etc. - PSA 5 ---> SGC 60
Cronin, etc. - PSA 5 ---> SGC 50

(Thank goodness the Dickey crossed over)

Out of the 13 PSAs that I submitted for cross-over, 8 received the same grade, 5 were downgraded 1 grade, and zero were upgraded. Not a good showing for PSA and it doesn't give me much confidence in PSA's ability to accurately grade lower-grade prewar cards.

I guess the moral of the story, which I've heard on this board before, is "buy the card, not the holder." Unless, in my opinion, the card is in an SGC holder. It's only SGC-graded, higher grade PSAs, or good-looking raw cards for me going forward.

I guess this has been a good learning experience for me (I'm new to the vintage card thing) as I am taking a much closer look at cards in PSA holders before buying/bidding. It has also affirmed my confidence in SGC's high standards for quality and consistency in grading.

I have a few more '33 cross-overs submitted to SGC - I'll update this post once those have been graded.

Has anyone had similar experiences with crossing over from PSA?

Hi Irwin...it has been my limited experience in learning that PSA cards have a high tendency to not make the crossover to SGC more than not, while some others will hold the grade while there is an occasional bump here and there. On the other hand, I believe when crossing over SGC to PSA you will find a higher ratio of grades that get crossed as well as bumped up. However, again, the inconsistencies found with PSA grades gives a variable to the equation that brings a whole lot of guessing into the game. I am with you, I plan on sticking with SGC graded cards for my personal collection and leaving the crossover game to others.
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#1991939 - 12/09/09 06:18 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Brian C]
EARLSWORLD Administrator
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Hi Brian C~

I just wanted to comment about the EOT you received from PSA...if you frequent the CU board you will find many postings where people cracked out PSA cards to see if they could get a bump only to get the card back EOT! It never surprises me when a card comes back with this distinction because when you send it back and have it regraded...you will probably get the grade it should have received to begin with!

EARL
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#1991941 - 12/09/09 06:45 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: EARLSWORLD]
Brian C
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A couple of responses:

1. I think it is great that SGC will communicate why a card receives a certain grade. If this is in fact the case then they are providing a great service to their submitters. I am surprised but pleased. However, I feel as a potential buyer of cards that I should not and will not call SGC to question the grade of every card I am considering buying to see if there is a qualifier that could be associated with a card which is not on the flip. I agree that the card technically deserves the lower grade because of the issue with the card. PSA scores the card lower in their set registry and their pop reports due to the qualifier. A PSA 3 MK is not the same as a PSA 3. They consider it a PSA 2 which is what SGC graded the card. I feel this is a more open process. I just wish SGC would state the issue on the flip. As I said before, we can agree to disagree.

2. I totally agree that PSA frequently rejects cards as EOT. I also agree that often these cards are not trimmed. I also agree that PSA often screws up and grades trimmed cards. I believe they are trying to catch trimmed cards and would rather they err on the side of caution. If there is question they should reject. However I know that SGC does the same thing. There was a thread recently about a T206 Cobb that SGC graded. PSA rejected for EOT. SGC subsequently agreed the card was trimmed. If we take the owner at his word that he did not trim the card then we have to also accept that SGC slabbed a trimmed card. I feel that both companies try to prevent this from happening but neither is perfect. I expect that if I re-submit my EOT card to SGC or PSA that it will grade. I'm OK with them being cautious, otherwise we get too much Scott Susor type cards slabbed and sold as unaltered when we all know better.

3. Looking at the grades I received today I ended up netting out 2 points of increase on a total of 34 cards for my T206 crossovers. Most of these were due to 0.5 point bumps that SGC does not offer. Remove the 0.5 bumps and my cards went down. There was also a crossover for 1941 Goudey which scored lower by PSA (SGC 30 to PSA 1.5). In my opinion the majority of the difference is the 1/2 point grading scale that PSA adopted a couple of years ago. Without that new scale things would be much more similar than I had expected. Still, the differences are startling.

Summary:
10 went up
15 stayed the ame
9 went down

That looks a lot like a bell curve to me.


Edited by Brian C (12/09/09 06:52 PM)

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#1991942 - 12/09/09 07:09 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Brian C]
Irwin Fletcher
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Brian,

The information from and analysis of your crossover submission is really interesting - thank you for posting it.

As I mentioned a few posts ago, I have four more '33 Goudey PSAs in front of SGC now - I expect they will pop early next week. Three are PSA 4 and one is PSA 3. I'll update my original list with those once I have the grades.

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#1991958 - 12/10/09 05:00 AM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Irwin Fletcher]
Brian C
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I look forward to the results. It has been my experience with both TPG's that they tend to frown on cards submitted for crossover in the other companies slab. Call it pride or a desire to appear tougher than the other guy but when they have the other TPG's opinion in front of them they will rarely say the card is better than the other guy did. They will usually either agree or downgrade. My opinion. When you post results like this I think it is important to say how the cards were submitted. Slabbed for crossover or cracked and submitted. I only crack and submit now. Too many failures the other way for me.
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#1991990 - 12/11/09 11:41 AM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Brian C]
Irwin Fletcher
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I mentioned a few posts ago that I had four more 1933 Goudey crossovers pending at SGC. Here are the results, which are, unfortunately, pretty consistent with the last batch:

1933 Goudey
#173 Holm - PSA 4 ---> SGC 40
#180 Moore - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40
#210 Davis - PSA 4 ---> SGC 40
#212 Urbanski - PSA 4 ---> SGC 40

So, for the last batch, one stayed the same and three were downgraded by 1 grade. Like the last batch, these four were submitted in their original PSA slabs.

While this affirms my previous conclusion that I am going to stop buying PSA 3 and 4 Goudeys for crossover to my VG-VG/EX SGC Registry Set, I should share some of the blame with PSA. As I mentioned previously, being new to the vintage card thing a few months ago, I often bought the holder and didn't look close enough at the actual card. For example, in this batch, the #212 Urbanski was not a great card, with a blurry image and a stain on one of the borders. Had I taken a closer look, I would have probably passed on it. Luckily, all of these cards were minor purchases and it's been a good learning experience.

I've learned that crossovers are unpredictable and that the best way for me to build my SGC Registry Set going forward is to buy raw, SGC, or PSA 5 or higher.

On the bright side, there were great results in the rest of my submission, which consisted of raw '33 Goudeys from the recent PWCC set break on eBay. The seller did an excellent job of anticipating the graded condition of the cards and I came away with some great bargains.

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#1991992 - 12/11/09 12:37 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Irwin Fletcher]
VANSLYKEFAN18
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Irwin, you are making me step up my 1933 Goudey registry game!! I see you creeping up the registry every day, I think that is awesome. I just put all my SGC 10, 20 and 30 cards on ebay knocking me back to 49%, but I wanted to have a strict SGC 40 cut off (sans the SGC 10 Bengough which I eventually replace).

As always good luck in your quest!!

Rob

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#1991993 - 12/11/09 01:10 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: VANSLYKEFAN18]
Irwin Fletcher
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Rob,

Thanks - I've been making some progress, but I've still got quite a ways to go to catch up to you.

The order that I picked up today at SGC gave me a boost since the #19 Dickey, #25 Waner, and #134 Rice that I bought raw all graded out at SGC 50. I haven't made many more recent purchases though, so my movement on the Registry will be slowing down a bit.

I'm with you - I recently decided to implement an SGC 40 cutoff as well, so I'll also be putting up a few on eBay this weekend. I'm going to keep my SGC 30 Bengough and SGC 20 #188 Hornsby, though, for budgetary reasons. Upgrades on those two will be years away.

Best of luck with the set!

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#1991994 - 12/11/09 01:15 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Irwin Fletcher]
VANSLYKEFAN18
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Yea I totally hear you on the upgrades. Besides the Bengough I have an SGC 30 Grove, and a couple other HOFers I will wait until I upgrade.

Way to score on the raw submissions; SGC 50 for those HOFers is incredible!!

Keep me up to date with your progress and I will do the same.

Rob

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#1992100 - 12/15/09 05:44 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: VANSLYKEFAN18]
srs1a
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Interesting results Irwin and Brian.

I've crossed a few mid-grade T206's from PSA to SGC (7 in total) and have not had the best luck. My results are pretty similar to Irwin's. I'm of the opinion that SGC is overly strict on 4's (50's) and overly broad with 3's (40's).

My results follow:

PSA-5 --> SGC-60 1 card, Evers Portrait -- I thought I might get a half grade bump, but no dice.
PSA-4 --> SGC-50 1 card -- Tinker portrait
PSA-4 --> SGC-40 1 card -- Clark portrait, I think PSA was right
PSA3.5 --> SGC-40 2 cards -- Walsh and Flick -- no way a PSA3.5 has a prayer of crossing to a SGC-50 IMO
PSA3 -- > SGC-40 2 cards -- Bender and J. Collins


The cards are here, if you care to take a peek.


T206 basic HOFers

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#1992102 - 12/15/09 07:07 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: srs1a]
aconte
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Great cards Scott!

T
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#1992138 - 12/17/09 08:27 AM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: srs1a]
Brian C
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 Originally Posted By: srs1a
Interesting results Irwin and Brian.

I've crossed a few mid-grade T206's from PSA to SGC (7 in total) and have not had the best luck. My results are pretty similar to Irwin's. I'm of the opinion that SGC is overly strict on 4's (50's) and overly broad with 3's (40's).

My results follow:

PSA-5 --> SGC-60 1 card, Evers Portrait -- I thought I might get a half grade bump, but no dice.
PSA-4 --> SGC-50 1 card -- Tinker portrait
PSA-4 --> SGC-40 1 card -- Clark portrait, I think PSA was right
PSA3.5 --> SGC-40 2 cards -- Walsh and Flick -- no way a PSA3.5 has a prayer of crossing to a SGC-50 IMO
PSA3 -- > SGC-40 2 cards -- Bender and J. Collins


The cards are here, if you care to take a peek.


T206 basic HOFers


Were these crossed in slabs or craced and re-submitted? The grades don't look bad to me.

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#1992153 - 12/17/09 05:33 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Brian C]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


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I don't know Brian, I consider the results pretty poor - not a single bump and 3/7 went down. I was expecting the PSA3.5 --> SGC-40s since SGC doesnt have that half grade and they weren't 50 material. I guess I can't really complain because I bid on them as if they were straight 3's. In this grade range, I don't think the half grade is valued very much, if at all.

All the crosses were in the slab, except for Clark. He went in a PSA-4 slab the 1st time and didn't cross....so I cracked him out and re-subbed...he came back in a SGC-40 holder. I still think this card would look fine in SGC-50 holder.


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#1992154 - 12/17/09 05:39 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: srs1a]
SMtJoy
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The Clarke is my favorite T206!

I will have to say I think they got it right, its very close, to me it just looks like too much corner wear for a 50, plus the bottom right corner looks like it might have a slight bend.

Great card anyway!

Heres mine lol-

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#1992156 - 12/17/09 06:20 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: SMtJoy]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


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Scott, I don't disagree that it is very marginal for a SGC-50...it is. While that may be the case, I have no problem calling that card VG-EX. As I said earlier, I think SGC is a tad overly harsh on this specific grade.

Your card is sharp. I have never figured out why people decided they needed to "sharpen up" already nice cards. My guess is that was a solid 50/60 before they got out the razor. \:\(

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#1992166 - 12/18/09 06:47 AM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: srs1a]
Irwin Fletcher
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Registered: 11/11/09
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The T206 Clarke is a great looking card!

I recently submitted two more crossovers to SGC (one 1933 Goudey and one 1935 Goudey), both of which were PSA 5 and submitted to SGC in their original PSA holders. I'm hoping I'll have better luck than I had with my previously submitted PSA 4s.

I'll post the results once I receive them.

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#1992259 - 12/22/09 08:09 AM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Irwin Fletcher]
Irwin Fletcher
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My two crossovers just popped and the results were good, as both crossed over at their original grades.

1933 Goudey #198 Burns - PSA 5 ---> SGC 60
1935 Goudey 4-in-1 Terry, etc. - PSA 5 ---> SGC 60

I've had the most trouble trying to cross over PSA 4s, so these results are pretty consistent with my past results.

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#1994855 - 03/06/10 04:00 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: aconte]
cmoking
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 03/30/05
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Goudeys can be real tough to cross. My success rate in crossing over PSA 7s (1933, 1934 and 1938 sets) is about 65% .. and that's after I've already weeded out the ones I don't think will cross.

In the higher grades, it is tough to find them already in SGC slabs. But in the mid-grade, I think there are some dealers that hold those in inventory. Being able to buy them already in SGC holders takes a lot of hassle and heart-break out of the collecting game.

P.S. Great blog!

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#1999640 - 02/21/11 05:46 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: cmoking]
TheHun
newbie


Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 44

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PSA terribly lack knowledge in my collecting arena. I have tried to educate them, but frankly, it was wasted energy.

SGC has made efforts to keep the hobby upbeat - learning along the way.

PSA is the kind of industrial disease that the card hobby does not need.
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#1999652 - 02/22/11 05:55 AM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: TheHun]
bbo
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Another convert.

Hallelujah!
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#2000053 - 04/11/11 10:09 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: bbo]
EARLSWORLD Administrator
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 Originally Posted By: bbo



Another convert.

Hallelujah!
Hahaha! SGC does have that Hobby changing effect on people!
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#2000219 - 04/26/11 08:01 AM PSA snub [Re: Irwin Fletcher]
currentsguy
stranger


Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 1

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I'm new to the sgc message boards but have just had a problem going the other way - SGC to PSA. I just submitted a sgc 84 yellow frank chance t206 and it came back from psa evidence of trimming. Talk about an expensive situation. Anyone have advice on what to do? My main issue is that I'm a psa set registry guy with #30 on the t206 registry. If I can't get this card into my set, I'm going to have to shell out $2k for a psa 7.

Anyone have this problem? Cards not crossing over at all?

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#2000220 - 04/26/11 10:13 AM Re: PSA snub [Re: currentsguy]
EARLSWORLD Administrator
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From all the stories I have heard the past few years, try resubmitting the card again to PSA. Did you crack the card out and submit or send it in and have cracked out? I assume you cracked it out...anyway, if SGC put it in a holder I have to trust that PSA's assessment is completely wrong as many have had this experience with them. The Hobby slam with PSA is if you don't like the grade you got the first time keep resubmitting until you do. It's not a put down for the other guys but reputation that they have gained from many collectors who have experienced it like you. I would try the resub and if it won't pass again then I'd say send it back to SGC and have them regrade and slab...then sell the card. Just my thoughts....
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#2000223 - 04/26/11 01:24 PM Re: PSA snub [Re: EARLSWORLD]
jackstraw
Talkative?


Registered: 02/23/03
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Well either PSA or SGC got it wrong. I am sure it happens at both
company's. My thing is SGC will not min size you and PSA will so with the t206's I imagine the sizes are all over the place and PSA just erred on the side of caution. Resubmit it and see what happens.
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#2000347 - 05/06/11 09:59 AM Re: PSA snub [Re: jackstraw]
rube26105
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Registered: 03/08/09
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psa sucks goat balls \:\)

Edited by rube26105 (05/06/11 10:00 AM)
Edit Reason: fluffer break
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#2000393 - 05/06/11 09:31 PM Re: PSA snub [Re: rube26105]
vintagetoppsguy
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Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 1310
Loc: Sugar Land, TX

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 Originally Posted By: rube26105
psa sucks goat balls \:\)


+1
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Collecting 1965 Topps High #'s SGC 88 or better: 10/91

BUYING Well Centered:
1956 Topps SGC 84 or Better (or raw equivalent)
1965 Topps SGC 88 or Better (or raw equivalent)

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#2001051 - 06/14/11 07:27 AM Re: PSA snub [Re: vintagetoppsguy]
Blackie
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 4766
Loc: Southern US

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RUBE............where you at brother???
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Working on the following sets:
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#2001093 - 06/15/11 04:34 AM Re: PSA snub [Re: Blackie]
Toledo Mudhen
Just got here


Registered: 09/18/05
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tell me why again did you crack it out of the correct holder in the 1st place?
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