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#1991846 - 12/07/09 10:31 AM I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs!
Irwin Fletcher
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 499
Loc: New Jersey

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I've mentioned a few times on this board that I am in the process of putting together low to mid-grade SGC Registry Sets of 1933 Goudey and 1935 Goudey. When I started these sets earlier this year, I was frustrated by the lack of SGC graded examples available on eBay in auction format and most sellers (with a few exceptions, such as Joe's Vintage Sportscards) had very unreasonable BIN prices. So I started snatching up PSA 3 and 4 examples through auctions with the intention of crossing them over to SGC. The results so far have not been good. Here they are:

1933 Goudey
#4 Schuble - PSA 3 ---> SGC 30
#9 Harris - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40
#10 Myatt - PSA 4 ---> SGC 40
#13 Thompson - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40
#15 Sorrell - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40
#17 Clark - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40
#18 Ruel - PSA 4 ---> SGC 50
#32 Clancy - PSA 4 ---> SGC 40
#45 Benton - PSA 4 ---> SGC 40
#91 Zachary - PSA 3 ---> SGC 40

1935 Goudey (4-in-1)
Dickey, etc. - PSA 5.5 ---> SGC 70
Brandt, etc. - PSA 5 ---> SGC 60
Cronin, etc. - PSA 5 ---> SGC 50

(Thank goodness the Dickey crossed over)

Out of the 13 PSAs that I submitted for cross-over, 8 received the same grade, 5 were downgraded 1 grade, and zero were upgraded. Not a good showing for PSA and it doesn't give me much confidence in PSA's ability to accurately grade lower-grade prewar cards.

I guess the moral of the story, which I've heard on this board before, is "buy the card, not the holder." Unless, in my opinion, the card is in an SGC holder. It's only SGC-graded, higher grade PSAs, or good-looking raw cards for me going forward.

I guess this has been a good learning experience for me (I'm new to the vintage card thing) as I am taking a much closer look at cards in PSA holders before buying/bidding. It has also affirmed my confidence in SGC's high standards for quality and consistency in grading.

I have a few more '33 cross-overs submitted to SGC - I'll update this post once those have been graded.

Has anyone had similar experiences with crossing over from PSA?



Edited by Irwin Fletcher (12/07/09 10:32 AM)

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#1991848 - 12/07/09 01:28 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Irwin Fletcher]
bbo
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Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3374
Loc: Top of the 1959 Registry

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I've actually done well in crossing PSA 1959 baseball. I usually buy 7's and 8's and look them over really well before subbing. If it's a high dollar card, I'll send it in for crossover without cracking out. Commons I usually crack after some tough scrutiny. I get about 75% to upgrade, 20% stay the same and maybe 5% nasty surprises.

But it's all in having a good eye for what will cross/bump. It takes time to get to where you want to be.

I do agree, though, that PSA is horribly inconsistent and frankly unable to render an accurate grade much of the time.
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#1991850 - 12/07/09 01:39 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Irwin Fletcher]
VANSLYKEFAN18
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Registered: 04/25/08
Posts: 868
Loc: Staten Island, NY

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I've crossed over a decent amount of 1933 Goudey's from PSA to SGC. I think my ratio has been a bit better overall than that, but I do know that more have been downgraded rather than upgraded. SGC gets it right, but as you said it is tougher to find SGC slabs out there. Any pre-war crossover is a gamble, I've been burned a few times.

Again good luck with the 1933 Goudeys, I am sure we will be bidding against each other on quite a few!! \:\)

Rob


Edited by VANSLYKEFAN18 (12/07/09 01:39 PM)

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#1991852 - 12/07/09 02:41 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: VANSLYKEFAN18]
Brian C
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Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 9

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Your results are not at all consistent with my results. I have crossed dozens of cards from SGC to PSA and have consistently had PSA downgrade the cards. In fact I have 3 dozen SGC cards currently sitting at PSA and am awaiting the grades. I will post them here when they come back. Based on what the cards looked like when I cracked them out I expect to get hammered on this crossover. I think there are two likely reasons for this:

1. SGC does not include a qualifier. So, all those hidden MK's that get through SGC don't get through PSA. A real negative in my experience.

2. Everytime a card gets encapsulated, cracked out, packed, mailed, re-graded and re-encapsulated, damage should be expected. I don't care how careful you are, there are a lot of hands touching the cards and things happen. Grades naturally and correctly do drop. In my opinion, if you crack and re-submit you should expect grades to come down. It's not the TPA's fault, it's natural.

When my grades pop from PSA I'll post. Hopefully this week.

Brian


Edited by Brian C (12/07/09 02:43 PM)

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#1991855 - 12/07/09 04:13 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Brian C]
VANSLYKEFAN18
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Registered: 04/25/08
Posts: 868
Loc: Staten Island, NY

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I think I am missing something. Since PSA uses the "MK" designation, wouldn't marked cards actually grade higher then SGC albeit with a qualifier? IMO I dislike the qualifier because I feel if a card has a stain or mark it should graded overall accordingly...just my two cents.
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#1991856 - 12/07/09 06:28 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Brian C]
EARLSWORLD Administrator
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Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 1929

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Hi All~

Not to be judgmental in the least, but my experience has been this: I have seen MANY PSA graded NM cards in my quest to collect a high graded 1958 Topps Set. Through that journey and because the short supply of SGC graded cards, many time I have had to turn to PSA graded cards to consider for crossovers. I can tell you, many PSA NM cards have been so over graded...corners mostly. And when I see this I just shake my head and wonder how did they ever get into a PSA 7 slab to begin with? Maybe some of you have experienced that with SGC, but I can tell you I NEVER have...I have nearly 200 slabbed SGC graded cards and every NM card is the same as far as the consistency goes. And if I wished to have them sent to PSA for a crossover grade would they pass...most definitely not? And why? Because grading is subjective to TPA's and it appears the inconsistencies that are found on that side of the street interfere with the objectivity of being able to grade consistently across the board. I know SGC is not perfect by any means, but to insinuate they are flawed because the competition won't uphold their grades just doesn't hold water. However, to each his own when it comes to choice, but for me SGC has proven themselves to be a trusted and consistent grading company that goes the extra mile to get it right! Just my humble opinion!

Earl
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#1991857 - 12/07/09 06:35 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: EARLSWORLD]
VANSLYKEFAN18
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Registered: 04/25/08
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Loc: Staten Island, NY

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Well said Earl...

I have had the same experiences with PSA slabbed cards vs SGC slabbed cards. The inconsistency with PSA is far worse. I have somewhere between 800-900 cards garded with SGC and would say more than 90% of the time I just about get the grade I was looking for. And most of the times I don't, it turns out to be something i missed.

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#1991859 - 12/07/09 07:32 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: VANSLYKEFAN18]
Irwin Fletcher
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 499
Loc: New Jersey

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I agree with Earl. Consistency is so important and, in my limited experience, SGC is light years ahead of PSA.

Rob: I got an SGC 50 #20 Bill Terry in the mail today for the '33 Registry Set.

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#1991860 - 12/07/09 07:44 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: Irwin Fletcher]
VANSLYKEFAN18
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Registered: 04/25/08
Posts: 868
Loc: Staten Island, NY

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Good job Irwin, beats the heck out of my SGC 40 #20 Terry \:\)
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#1991863 - 12/07/09 07:58 PM Re: I'm done with lower grade Goudey PSAs! [Re: VANSLYKEFAN18]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

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Earl's post is about right from my experiences too.

aconte
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