#2008036 - 05/10/12 11:16 AM
Re: A Tribute to Sandy Koufax...My Childhood Idol
[Re: cammb]
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bbo
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You know, cammb, they're going to think we're the same person when I write this, but that last post of yours is classic. Lawyers think they rule the world, when really they are just pawns of the justice system on the same level as a clerk or baliff.
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#2008037 - 05/10/12 11:23 AM
Re: A Tribute to Sandy Koufax...My Childhood Idol
[Re: cammb]
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gaugman
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Using the criteria of complete games, innings pitched and shut outs as a requisite for greatness, lets compare pitchers who pitched in the 60’s.
I’m doing this to show that Koufax, as great as he was, was not that much better than his contemporaries, if at all.
The problem is that Koufax didn’t pitch that long. He had a 6 year stretch where he dominated and then retired because of arm problems. I took arguably the best 6 consecutive years of three other pitchers in that time period and put them side by side. These are the first three that came to mind.
Koufax 1961-66… 1633 Innings; 115 complete games; 35 shut outs
Gibson 1964-69 1660 Innings; 123 complete games; 32 shut outs
Marichal 1963-68 1719 Innings; 137 complete games; 30 shut outs
Jenkins 1967-72 1835 Innings; 140 complete games; 24 shut outs
These other three pitchers went on the have many more outstanding seasons.
Jenkins stats only include 2 years when he pitched on the higher mound and of course pitching in Wrigley.
The point I’m trying to make is you can’t compare the 60’s generation of pitchers to Pedro, Maddox, Johnson, ect, by using IP, CG and Sho. It’s was a different time.
Koufax was great for a short time for many reasons, not only because of the above stats.
That generation produced many pitchers with similar stats in those categories.
BTW Leon, don’t discount factoring in the DH when comparing Pedro to Maddox and Johnson. All Greats
I wonder how the game today would change if they widened the strike zone, raised the mound,took away all the protective gear and allowed the players to police themselves. Oh, and get rid of the DH. Just a thought
I'm done on the subject. Too much wit going around.
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#2008038 - 05/10/12 12:02 PM
Re: A Tribute to Sandy Koufax...My Childhood Idol
[Re: bbo]
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Irwin Fletcher
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bbo - trust me, the vast majority of attorneys do not think they rule the world. World rulers don't have to work such long hours...
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#2008041 - 05/10/12 12:41 PM
Re: A Tribute to Sandy Koufax...My Childhood Idol
[Re: Irwin Fletcher]
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bbo
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An attorney saying, "Trust me."
Uhh..........no, thanks. I don't think so.
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#2008042 - 05/10/12 01:08 PM
Re: A Tribute to Sandy Koufax...My Childhood Idol
[Re: gaugman]
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cammb
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Registered: 12/30/10
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One more parting shot, who is to say that pedro Martinez wasn't using steroids or HGH? Just a thought.
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#2008044 - 05/10/12 03:24 PM
Re: A Tribute to Sandy Koufax...My Childhood Idol
[Re: cammb]
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Irwin Fletcher
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There's definitely no way to know. As far as I'm concerned, you either have to suspect everyone or suspect no one that played during the so-called "Steroid Era." I prefer to suspect everyone.
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#2008045 - 05/10/12 05:15 PM
Re: A Tribute to Sandy Koufax...My Childhood Idol
[Re: Irwin Fletcher]
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cammb
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Registered: 12/30/10
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Agree
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#2008067 - 05/11/12 08:11 PM
Re: A Tribute to Sandy Koufax...My Childhood Idol
[Re: cammb]
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brick
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Being old school I would never put Pedro in the same class as Koufax. However being logical and reasonably thinking over the evidence presented a very good case has been put forth that perhaps Martinez was as good or better than Koufax. However the A, B, C comparison would take my vote back to Koufax. It is clearly player B.
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