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#2010279 - 08/24/12 07:54 AM Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover.
Scottish Punk
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I recently subbed my Lord of the Rings autograph cards from BGS. I have been thinking of slowly moving all my BGS graded into SGC. Now I am not so sure.

1 2001 Topps SIR IAN HOLM Lord Of The Rings Auto. 92 GAI 8.5 even
2 2001 Topps LIV TYLER Lord Of The Rings Auto. 96 Raw
3 2001 Topps SIR IAN MCKELLEN Lord Of The Rings Auto. 92 Raw
4 2001 Topps HUGO WEAVING Lord Of The Rings Auto. 96 BGS 8.5 up 1
5 2001 Topps CHRISTOPHER LEE Lord Of The Rings Auto. 88 BGS 9.0 down 2
6 2003 Topps BERNARD HILL Lord Of The Rings Auto. 96 BGS 9.0 even
7 2003 Topps KARL URBAN Lord Of The Rings Auto. 96 BGS 9.0 even
8 2003 Topps JOHN NOBLE Lord Of The Rings Auto. 84 Raw
9 2003 Topps BRUCE HOPKINS Lord Of The Rings Auto. 88 BGS 9.5 down 3 cen9.5,cor9.0,ed9.5,sur9.5
10 2003 Topps CHRISTOPHER LEE Lord Of The Rings Auto. 96 Raw
11 2003 Topps ANDY SERKIS Lord Of The Rings Auto. (Update) 96 BGS 9.0 even
12 2003 Topps SEAN BEAN Lord Of The Rings Auto. (Update) 84 Raw
13 2003 Topps VIGGO MORTENSEN Lord Of The Rings Auto. (Update) 86 BGS 8.5 down 2
14 2002 Topps BILLY BOYD Lord Of The Rings Auto. 96 BGS 8.5 up 1
15 2002 Topps DAVID WENHAM Lord Of The Rings Auto. 88 BGS 8.0 even
16 2002 Topps MIRANDA OTTO Lord Of The Rings Auto. 80 BGS 7.5 down 3 cen 9.5,cor7.0,ed8.5,sur9.5
17 2002 Topps DOMINIC MONAGHAN Lord Of The Rings Auto. 70 Raw (Grrr!!)
18 2002 Topps CRAIG PARKER Lord Of The Rings Auto. 84 BGS 8.5 down 3 cen9.5,cor8.5,ed8.5,sur9.5
19 2002 Topps CATE BLANCHETT Lord Of The Rings Auto. 88 BGS 9.0 down 2
20 2002 Topps SEAN ASTIN Lord Of The Rings Auto. 96 BGS 8.5 up 1
21 2002 Topps ORLANDO BLOOM Lord Of The Rings Auto. 96 BGS 9.0 even
22 2002 Topps ELIJAH WOOD Lord Of The Rings Auto. 84 BGS 8.5 down 3 cen9.5,cor8,ed8.5,sur9.0

Do I chalk this up to SGC just doesn't have any experience with these cards? They are all population one now in their registry. Beckett really that bad? These are supposed to be in Beckett's wheelhouse, modern shiney. I may just crack and put them in one-touches and call it a day. I can put up a few scans when I get them back.

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#2010280 - 08/24/12 07:57 AM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: Scottish Punk]
bbo
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Sorry this happened to you.

modern + SGC = bad.
modern + Beckett = good.
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#2010282 - 08/24/12 09:06 AM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: bbo]
vintagetoppsguy
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What is Lord of the Rings? Is that anything like Harry Potter? My little girl loves that kind of stuff.

Sorry about the bad grades.
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#2010283 - 08/24/12 10:18 AM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: vintagetoppsguy]
K-dog
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#2010285 - 08/24/12 10:40 AM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: K-dog]
Scottish Punk
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That is funny kdog.

Yes vintage, lord of the rings is somewhat like Harry Potter. JRR Tolkien books that came out 50+ years ago along with 'The Hobbitt". He is the father of the fantasy genre in literature. Movies came out 10 years ago.

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#2010304 - 08/25/12 12:28 PM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: Scottish Punk]
The T206Fiend
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Great image K-Dog.With regards to the cards,sorry to hear of the downgrading.Im experiencing the same thing with some Red Borders I have graded by PSA.PSA was too lax with the grades and SGC won't crossover a few.My fault for not seeing the over grades before purchasing them.Im trying to break my habit of buying the flip and not the card.

Edited by The T206Fiend (08/25/12 12:32 PM)

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#2010312 - 08/25/12 01:51 PM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: bbo]
BigRedOne
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 Originally Posted By: bbo
Sorry this happened to you.

modern + SGC = bad.
modern + Beckett = good.



I surely don't buy this theory. I feel that any of the big 3 TPGers are just as qualified to access and pretty much grade all types of cards weather it be vintage or new. The Human element is always going make grading a subjective thing.
So i don't subscribe to the theory that SGC is any less or more qualified to grade modern than PSA or BGS. Not getting the grades one wants or expects is just part of the subjective issue with card grading and really proves nothing as to which TPGer is better or worse in certain areas.

If just getting the best label is your concern, I suggest just keeping them raw and save yourself the money used to buy an opinion from the so called "Proffessional Grading Community"

John
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#2010323 - 08/26/12 04:50 AM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: BigRedOne]
Toledo Mudhen
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You could have sent them to PRO Grading and got Gem Mint 10s back on every one. That is sometimes fun to do when I get bored.
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#2010351 - 08/27/12 11:38 AM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: Toledo Mudhen]
srs1a
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On the cards where you provided the BGS subgrades, I think you got caught by (what I think) is a flaw in BGS's grading system.

For example:
16 2002 Topps MIRANDA OTTO Lord Of The Rings Auto. 80 BGS 7.5 down 3 cen 9.5,cor7.0,ed8.5,sur9.5

In my opinion, a card with 7 corners is a 7 -- it can't be better. I'm pretty sure that SGC grades this way, as well. BGS, however, will give it a half grade better if the other subs support it which they did on this card.

Add to this, I believe SGC is tougher on corners that BGS and there you are. My guess is that SGC said the corners limited the card to a 6 and that's what you got -vs- the 7.5 that BGS gave it. This same general argument holds for most of the other cards where you provided the subgrades.

Cross overs are a tough (and frustrating) business.

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#2010352 - 08/27/12 01:21 PM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: srs1a]
SMtJoy
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Tough one here, kinda gets down too-

Would you rather have a high grade on an over-graded card or a strict proper grade, maybe a little under-graded and possibly worth a little less if you ever decide to sell.

If its strictly for your collection go with the one that makes the cards look the best, on the cards you listed all are signed and I would think the grade is not a huge driver on the price, value is more decided on whos auto and how limited the print run was. Its not like people are battling it out over on the Beckett registry over this set and being .001 higher than the slab collector above them.

In any case post some pics, never seen the cards, loved the movies!


Edited by SMtJoy (08/27/12 01:21 PM)

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#2010367 - 08/28/12 07:57 AM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: SMtJoy]
Scottish Punk
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Got the cards back last night, I will get some scans up. I do have to admit the cards look great in the SGC holders.

srs1a, I think you are correct in the respect that SGC seems to be tougher on the corners. The cards may just be more accurately graded now, which I am 100% ok with. I still think a couple are off though.

The BGS subgrades are a hinder as much as they help. It is one of the reasons why I am moving away from Beckett. Yeah, you can see what subgrade brought the card down, but the overall score gets confusing. It is not an average, can only be .5 above lowest, etc. Not to mention when you have one low out of four, it just draws attention to that flaw. Couple that with the gold/silver labels, BVG being a completely different standard, and yet another type/color for JSA authenticated, the OCD in me hates all that non-uniformity.

SMt.Joy - Beckett has a registry?? ;\)

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#2010381 - 08/28/12 11:08 AM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: Scottish Punk]
SMtJoy
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Well they used to have one haha but was really just using it as the example most use to explain some of the crazy psa card prices they can bring if they are in very competitive set vs selling into a set with no registry rarely brings any premium from all the grading companies.

Cant wait to see pics!

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#2010397 - 08/29/12 04:27 PM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: SMtJoy]
Scottish Punk
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Here is a sampling of some of the cards.





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#2010405 - 08/29/12 06:30 PM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: Scottish Punk]
Blackie
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Very nice cards!!! Showed my wife as that is her favorite movie series and she loved em.
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#2010406 - 08/29/12 06:54 PM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: Blackie]
K-dog
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I'm guessing the Merry has a spider wrinkle somewhere...rotating the card under a light using a magnifier you might be able to see it(maybe?) And unless there is something about the corners or edges that isn't shown on the Eowyn, the only other possibilities are probably a register/focus issue or a bit of a strange cut of the card(neither one from that I can tell from the scan). Great cards regardless of the grade opinions! \:\) Congrats!
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#2010407 - 08/29/12 06:59 PM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: K-dog]
SMtJoy
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Those are awesome, thanks for the pics, they look great!
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#2010409 - 08/30/12 01:52 AM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: SMtJoy]
BigRedOne
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Nice to see some Non-Sport cards here.
Very cool cards!

I became interested in the 1934 Garbaty Cigarette Cards after reading an article about them and their link in history to WWII.
I began actively working on putting the set together for about a year now.

The large majority of the set is raw, but I have picked up some nice graded ones when the Price was right.



Its amazing how much more beautiful the cards display in the SGC holder.


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#2010410 - 08/30/12 05:33 AM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: BigRedOne]
Scottish Punk
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Those are very unique cards BigRedOne. I agree it is amazing how bad the cards look in the PSA holder, it just looks like it is floating in frosted plastic. Does that card bounce around like other psa cards?

Thanks for the compliments on the cards guys. I am a huge Lord of the Rings/Tolkien fan. The only two autos I am still looking for are John Ryhs-Davies (Gimli) and Peter Jackson. Even though Gimli was a central character in all three movies, he is only a limited signer for the first set. It is a hard to find card.

The Merry is also very limited, so I probably won't be replacing/upgrading any time soon.

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#2010635 - 09/06/12 03:14 AM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: Scottish Punk]
BigRedOne
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Yes, If you shake the holder Im sure the card in the PSA holder will rattle around. I would like to cross it to an SGC Holder.

Good Luck on finding the two cards you need for your Set.

John
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#2011208 - 09/25/12 08:44 AM Re: Not super happy with the latest sub/crossover. [Re: BigRedOne]
oneofthree67
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Great looking cards SP! They look 10X better in their new home (a SGC holder)!
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