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#2010818 - 09/13/12 04:28 AM Legitimate auction or no?
bbo
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What say you? Real deal or not?
Final Hammer?

1952 Mantle GEM MINT
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#2010819 - 09/13/12 04:41 AM Re: Legitimate auction or no? [Re: bbo]
vintagetoppsguy
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Not a chance in the world that it's legit.

Edited to add: As far as final hammer, this auction gets pulled before the acution ends...probably sometime this early afternoon.

Edited by vintagetoppsguy (09/13/12 04:43 AM)
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#2010820 - 09/13/12 05:08 AM Re: Legitimate auction or no? [Re: vintagetoppsguy]
trex
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No way!

They're all over it across the street.

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=867176
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#2010821 - 09/13/12 05:17 AM Re: Legitimate auction or no? [Re: trex]
33rdStreet
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There are 33 bidders on this?! Who in there right mind sells a Gem Mint 52 Mantle on EBAY? That alone should cause people to question the card.
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#2010822 - 09/13/12 06:24 AM Re: Legitimate auction or no? [Re: 33rdStreet]
SMtJoy
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Not, just look at all the fun stuff he has sold in the past, haha.
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#2010823 - 09/13/12 07:06 AM Re: Legitimate auction or no? [Re: SMtJoy]
cammb
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I think you hit on the head. His previous auctions were junk filled and all of a sudden he has this Mantle. The cert number is correct. There is a documentary with Fogel holding the card and that is the right serial number. In the piece, Fogel states that he would only sell to a museum or the like. I guess the serial number can easily be duplicated. In addition, the markings on the bat dont appear to be quite correct. Could be wrong but I agree with my buddy, Vintage, that is not legitimate and auction will be ended.
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#2010826 - 09/13/12 02:50 PM Re: Legitimate auction or no? [Re: cammb]
vintagetoppsguy
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And it's gone
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Collecting 1965 Topps High #'s SGC 88 or better: 10/91

BUYING Well Centered:
1956 Topps SGC 84 or Better (or raw equivalent)
1965 Topps SGC 88 or Better (or raw equivalent)

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#2010828 - 09/13/12 03:28 PM Re: Legitimate auction or no? [Re: vintagetoppsguy]
trex
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Big surprise there..huh?
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#2010831 - 09/13/12 04:57 PM Re: Legitimate auction or no? [Re: trex]
trex
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Here's a comment from across the street:

"What I find is most upsetting about this matter is that there were people actually bidding on this item, I hope they were not board members as I would like to think they are a little smarter than that!"

And this is the most troubling part of this whole scenario. The last time I checked the bid was $53,000. I know it's not totally relevant but here's a post from 33rdstreet earlier:

"I typed SGC into YouTube to see if they had a video of there grading process like psa does, all that came up was little videos of 12 year olds showing of there graded cards and making comments like.....this one only came back a nine I'll probably crack it out! All I could here in the videos was the sound of the psa cases slapping down on the table as they showed them one by one. As I listened it was obvious the card in the case was completely secondary to the grade on it. That's the state of the hobby. Wayyyyyy off topic I know."

So, it's not really off-topic, it's what we have evolved into, kids look at dads and see irritation with a number on a plastic case and say "yah you're right, it's wrong," Instead of the history involved in the whole process and the nostalgia. With this in mind, what long-term future does the hobby have? Greed+Money=Corruption.

Someone please someone tell me I'm wrong.
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#2010834 - 09/13/12 05:23 PM Re: Legitimate auction or no? [Re: trex]
cammb
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Kids also see their dads irritation when their father buys a raw card and finds out it was trimmed. The root of this is the drive that collectors have for perfection. It borders on insanity. There are no longer true collectors, those who collect for the enjoyment no matter the condition. I have taken a step over to the dark side but still collect lesser condition cards.
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#2010835 - 09/13/12 06:34 PM Re: Legitimate auction or no? [Re: cammb]
trex
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Maybe, but I personally don't see a problem with striving for perfection on a raw card and teaching a child what makes a perfect card as long as the parent teaches the child the history behind the card.

The problem I have is with putting a number on a piece of plastic that may or may not be a true representation of the actual condition of the card and teaching the child the higher the number the more money you can make on the card, a lot of times misrepresenting the actual card.

I think they're are still true collectors who collect for pure enjoyment, I being one. That being said I still strive for the best condition card I can get for the money irregardless of some TPG's number on a case.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with collecting no matter the condition, just as there is nothing wrong with striving for perfection in cards. This is what made the hobby so great. The problem is with putting a number on a piece of plastic along with a dollar amount and teaching the child this is all that matters. IMHO.
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#2010840 - 09/13/12 06:59 PM Re: Legitimate auction or no? [Re: trex]
33rdStreet
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Trex,

Alot of the parents don't know the history behind the card either! Part of the problem but I couldn't agree with you more.
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#2010842 - 09/13/12 07:09 PM Re: Legitimate auction or no? [Re: 33rdStreet]
trex
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33rdstreet,

I think that is what I was trying to say in one succinct sentence. They don't know, all they know is ROI. Nothing really wrong with that if that's the only reason they're in the hobby. To me though it's a shame because that's all the child is going to know.
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#2010843 - 09/13/12 07:09 PM Re: Legitimate auction or no? [Re: 33rdStreet]
bbo
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It's a function of capitalism. We measure worth by balance sheets, job title and income (and the acoutrements thereof). There are cheaters in all endeavors. It's part of the process.

Grades on slabs are professional opinions. Some pros are better than others. Some things we can do ourselves, some things are better left to others. To each his own. Live and learn. What goes around comes around.

You get the idea. Personally, I'll take capitalism with all it's flaws and diversify my assets and my hobbies.
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#2010846 - 09/13/12 07:30 PM Re: Legitimate auction or no? [Re: bbo]
33rdStreet
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I realize that grading is here to stay and I'll be the first to admit I Do all I can to get the best cards possible. I do think grading has taken the basic principle behind the hobby and drastically altered it. For me it's a connection to my past, a part of the history of a sport that's been a part of my life in many ways. Rummaging thru pack after pack as a kid or listening to my father telling me the story of sneaking into memorial stadium for the 58 all star game for the 100th time!
Without the history of the sports they represent the cards might as well be worthless. So when someone I'm buying from doesn't know what Spahn and sain and pray for rain comes from I generally look for another place to buy from. I'm sure alot of collectors might think that weird but I kind of expect a little chit chat about the hobby when I lay 1400 down for a 54 banks!
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