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#2011569 - 10/08/12 11:30 AM Re: GB vs. Seattle: Did the refs get it right? [Re: bbo]
cammb
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I guess 4 time MVP was just luck!
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#2011570 - 10/08/12 11:44 AM Re: GB vs. Seattle: Did the refs get it right? [Re: cammb]
bbo
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MVP on his TEAM, maybe. League MVP notoriously goes to stat sheet stuffers. Where's the Super Bowls? One win, one loss. Routinely won in a weak division, AFC South, but has trouble advancing in playoffs. Playoff record 9-10. Compare that to Brady.

Manning is the poster boy for over-rated. Why did he pick Denver? Weak division.
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#2011571 - 10/08/12 11:58 AM Re: GB vs. Seattle: Did the refs get it right? [Re: bbo]
vintagetoppsguy
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The two are only 1 year apart in age.

Brady: 6th round pick (199th overall)
Manning: 1st round pick (1st overall)

Brady: (4) 4,000 yard seasons
Manning: (11) 4,000 yard seasons

Brady: 39,979 Total Passing Yards
Manning: 55,061 Total Passing Yards

Brady: 300 Touchdowns
Manning: 401 Touchdowns

How can you measure a quarterback by how many SBs they've won? If that's the case, Marino must have sucked.
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#2011572 - 10/08/12 12:29 PM Re: GB vs. Seattle: Did the refs get it right? [Re: vintagetoppsguy]
bbo
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He didn't suck but as the 6th QB taken in the first round of a rich QB draft class in 1983, he was OK. Lots of passing on a team that had trouble running the ball. And very little defensive support. I'd put Manning ahead of Marino, but just barely. I'd also put Brady ahead of them both, if I were starting a team from scratch.

The discussion began when you compared Aaron Rodgers to Tom Brady, saying those two were the most over-rated of QB's. I had no comment on Rodgers. Not enough time to tell. I took issue with your characterization of Brady.

Over-rated means not living up to expectations. Brady CLEARLY exceeded expectations, both in college and the pros. By way of example and comparison, I offer up Peyton Manning. Manning clearly underperformed where it matters, winning post season games and Super Bowl appearances/wins.

Other QB's: Eli Manning-drafted high, succeeded.
Rivers: drafted high, underperformed.
Brees: drafted #1 second round, over-achieved, but needs a coach to seal his fate. Kind of like Marino in that he succeeds in a pass-happy offense. His only SB win, he did outshine Manning. (More fodder for my position that Manning is the over-rated QB.)

If you're going to trash Brady, you look under informed at best. Call him lucky, fortunate, surrounded by great players (though that's debatable), blessed with a great coach. But don't call Brady over-rated. He exceeded expectations and has the brass to prove it.
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#2011737 - 10/15/12 08:06 AM Re: GB vs. Seattle: Did the refs get it right? [Re: bbo]
vintagetoppsguy
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If Brady can't even beat Seattle...

Do I really need to go any further?
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#2011738 - 10/15/12 09:15 AM Re: GB vs. Seattle: Did the refs get it right? [Re: vintagetoppsguy]
bbo
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Yes, but Rodgers just beat the everloving stuffing out of your 5-0 Texans, tossing six TD passes. So is Rodgers still over rated?

In the SEA-NE game, Wes Welker got clocked big time (I mean leveled in a hurry) and next time down around the goal line he flinched and SEA intercepted. Welker is one tough cookie, but he may be selling used cars sooner than he thought.
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#2011739 - 10/15/12 02:05 PM Re: GB vs. Seattle: Did the refs get it right? [Re: bbo]
vintagetoppsguy
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 Originally Posted By: bbo
Yes, but Rodgers just beat the everloving stuffing out of your 5-0 Texans, tossing six TD passes. So is Rodgers still over rated?


Mike, quit watching Sports Center highlights for your info

GB didn't beat anybody last night. Sure, they earned a W, but the Texans beat themselves. Did you see that game? There were 3 penalties on the Texans that extended GB drives - 2 for touchdowns. Two I believe were bad calls. There were other bad calls as well. I thought the officiating was horrible. This whole thread started because of officiating and to me (and I really believe this), the regular refs are worse than the replacement refs.
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#2011740 - 10/15/12 02:23 PM Re: GB vs. Seattle: Did the refs get it right? [Re: vintagetoppsguy]
vintagetoppsguy
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One other thing, I belive that Brady and Rodgers are good quarterbacks. I just think the two are overrated. And yes, I love the Texans, but if I were the coach the first thing I would do would be to cut Schaub. I don't like him and never have.

And not taking anything away from GB last night, they played well. However, there were calls (whether the refs got them right or not), that extednded 2 GB drives for TDs. Take away those penalties and GB ends up punting the ball. So instead of 6 TDs, Rodgers only throws for 4 - could have been a whole different ball game. And I'm not going to argue whether the calls were bad or not. If you believe they were, then it only futhers my point. If you believe they weren't, then the Texans shot themselves in the foot and simply beat themselves.
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#2011741 - 10/15/12 02:49 PM Re: GB vs. Seattle: Did the refs get it right? [Re: vintagetoppsguy]
bbo
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Delusion is a powerful drug.

Toughest opponent Texans had faced to date. GB prepared well to stop the run. GB took a FG off the board with that first penalty. Without the penalty and assuming your other facts played out no differently, it still would have been 31-24.

Bad calls or not (I believe they were actually correct calls, so I'd be interested in which one(s) you take issue with), GB wins that game 10 times out of 10. GB exploited the Texans' weaknesses, mainly in the secondary. Rodgers is skilled and smart and had an excellent game plan. Yes, he's better than Schaub, but what available QB could do better than Schaub??

The real reason GB won is one I can trace back to my gambling on football days while in college. GB needed the win more than the Texans. GB was a mortal lock with cosmic certitude to win that game.

Texans next game is must win to (a) regain some swagger, and (b) take the early lead over BALT in the home field advantage for playoffs from the team they lost to in 2011 (on the road). We will see what they are made of next Sunday. Cushing is sorely missed.

Before the season, I predicted the Texans would go 10-6 again, just like last year. I'll stick by that. Meaning they go 5-5 the rest of the way. They may turn it around and go 6-4 (11-5), but I'd be SHOCKED, SHOCKED if they won more than 11 or won more than one playoff game. Theirs is a good regular season team, but not built for the playoffs. Too easy to solve for a good DC.

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#2011742 - 10/15/12 04:10 PM Re: GB vs. Seattle: Did the refs get it right? [Re: bbo]
vintagetoppsguy
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I think the Texans will do better than 10-6. The AFC is so weak this year. If San Diego loses tonight (which I think they will), Baltimore and Houston will be the only two teams in the AFC to have a winning record so far this season. That's absolutely amazing if you think about it (6 games into the season). Baltimore will definitely be tough next week but I'm prediciting a 27-24 victory for the Texans.
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