#2011945 - 10/23/12 08:13 AM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
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33rdStreet
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Great list but I dont think I'd put the Gibson on there, I know it has centering issues and can be tough in high grade but it's the color of the card thats always bugged me! Bob Gibson should have had a darker background also when I think of Gibson I never picture him grinning! I would have stuck the Kilebrew or Kaline on there instead. Those two are pure artwork.
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#2011946 - 10/23/12 08:17 AM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
[Re: 33rdStreet]
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33rdStreet
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Also feel that the Aaron rookie should be held in higher regard than it is. What a card and when its bright, focused and sharp its awesome. Once again I realize the Clemente is a tough card in 7 plus grade and centering on it is just down right frustrating but Clemente just wasnt in Aaron's class IMHO.
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#2011948 - 10/23/12 11:59 AM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
[Re: 33rdStreet]
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gaugman
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I agree, Bob Gibson does NOT belong on a pink card.
Read into it anyway you'd like, JMO
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#2011955 - 10/23/12 03:28 PM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
[Re: 33rdStreet]
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brewing
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Once again I realize the Clemente is a tough card in 7 plus grade and centering on it is just down right frustrating but Clemente just wasnt in Aaron's class IMHO.
I'll say it.
If Clemente didn't die delivering humanitarian aid to earthquake victims and his career had the typical ending, his cards wouldn't be nearly as sought after as they are.
Clemente is on par with Kaline and both are a tier below Aaron.
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#2011956 - 10/23/12 03:34 PM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
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brewing
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In my pursuit of Post-War HoF rookie cards. The Wilhelm is the one I'm most frustrated shelling out the money for. It may be the last card of my pursuit.
I'd drop him and add Kaline.
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#2011960 - 10/23/12 04:54 PM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
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bbo
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Good call. Not sure why Wilhelm is even on the list. But Gibby deserves to be there, whether or not I collect 1959's.
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#2011963 - 10/23/12 05:53 PM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
[Re: bbo]
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33rdStreet
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Gibson belongs there just not a big fan of that card. I'd agree in bumping the reliever for the ace anyday
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#2011964 - 10/23/12 08:42 PM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
[Re: 33rdStreet]
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SMtJoy
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I agree that Clementes death has added to his card values but to me hes always a step ahead of Kaline (a player I like a lot btw). Not withstanding the fact his career was cut short, his last season he hit .312 the year before .341. Given Kaline played 4 more years to add to his overall stats they are still very close as is.
1 MVP to 0 (having to beat out Mays, Aaron and Koufax to win)
4 Batting Titles to 1
1 WS MVP to 0
12 Gold Gloves to 10
Both great but ill take Clemente.
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#2011969 - 10/24/12 04:44 AM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
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gaugman
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I agree that Clemente's cards wouldn't be nearly as sought after as they are if it weren't for the circumstances surrounding his death.
I also agree Clemente was a better ballplayer than Kaline, but
IMO Frank Robinson was better than both of those players and his rookie card is not on the list. He was moody and surly and not as well liked. I guess that's one reason his card misses out.
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#2011971 - 10/24/12 05:19 AM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
[Re: gaugman]
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33rdStreet
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Frank Robinson has always been under-rated. As a huge Oriole fan I've always just taken advantage and gotten his stuff on the cheap side! One day the hobby may wake up.
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#2011972 - 10/24/12 06:14 AM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
[Re: gaugman]
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bbo
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Frank Robinson also got the stuffing kicked out of him by Eddie Mathews when Robinson came sliding into third base, cleats up. Mathews pummeled him three times to the face before Robinson knew what hit him. Maybe that's why Frank was so moody?
That story was told to me by a former major leaguer who got it directly from Mathews. This particular major leaguer played with Mathews as an Astro in 1967.
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#2011976 - 10/24/12 09:38 AM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
[Re: bbo]
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gaugman
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As I remember the story as it was told to me was, Mathews took exception to a hard slide Robinson made into the bag at 3rd on a close play during a spring training game in 1967. It was one of the last times Mathews would play 3rd before moving across the diamond to settle in at 1st
Mathews fell on top of Robinson as his legs were taken out from under him and the two started jostling. It’s then Mathews smacked Robinson across the face with his glove.
They were separated almost immediately as it took 3 people, the pitcher, the 3rd base coach, and a random fan from the stands, to hold back Robinson from going after Mathews. Rumor has it that Robinson went looking for Mathew's after the game but Mathew's skipped the showers that day and left immediately after last pitch.
Funny part of the story was that some say the fan that day who helped restrain Robinson from doing bodily harm to Mathew's, was the older brother of Annise Parker who is now the mayor of Houston. I personally don’t buy it.
Not meant to be taken seriously. A poor attempt at humor.
Edited by gaugman (10/25/12 04:26 AM)
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#2011979 - 10/24/12 12:14 PM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
[Re: gaugman]
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bbo
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I'll stand by my version, as relayed to me. My source was a backup catcher for the Astros and was telling me some "inside baseball" stories.
It's documented here (take this particular article with a grain of salt considering the author, who wouldn't want you to ever get cheated):
Mathews "pummels" Frank Robinson
Another version:
Robinson's version
As for a fan from the stands entering the field of play, even in an exhibition game in the 1960's, that's highly unlikely. So, I'm with you on that part: I don't buy it either.
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#2011980 - 10/24/12 02:48 PM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
[Re: bbo]
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trex
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It actually occurred in 1960 and it wasn't in a spring training game, it was in the first game of a twi-night double header on August 15th.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=13...pg=7042,2691750
Mike, you've peaked my interest as to who your source is. Here's the 1967 Astros roster:
Pitchers
25,30 Bo Belinsky
47 Wade Blasingame
26 John Buzhardt
44 Danny Coombs
35 Mike Cuellar
49 Larry Dierker
44 Tom Dukes
44 Arnold Earley
36 Dave Eilers
13,31 Turk Farrell
39 Dave Giusti
43 Pat House
48 Barry Latman
33 Jim Owens
36 Claude Raymond
19 Howie Reed
46 Dan Schneider
41 Carroll Sembera
31 Larry Sherry
31 Bruce Von Hoff
23,40 Don Wilson
37 Chris Zachary
Catchers
4,27 Dave Adlesh
7 John Bateman
9 Ron Brand
8 Bill Heath
60 Hal King
Infielders
14 Bob Aspromonte
42 Lee Bales
8 Jackie Brandt
28 Julio Gotay
17 Chuck Harrison
16 Sonny Jackson
15 Bob Lillis
11 Eddie Mathews
18 Joe Morgan
12,19 Doug Rader
11 Bob Watson
Outfielders
22 Ron Davis
20 Jim Landis
21 Norm Miller
20 Ivan Murrell
28 Aaron Pointer
10 Rusty Staub
24 Jimmy Wynn
Other batters
29 Candy Harris
34 José Herrera
Manager
1 Grady Hatton
Coaches
3 Jim Busby
2 Nellie Fox
6 Al Heist
33 Jim Owens
When you said backup catcher I thought maybe Bateman, but he came up through the Houston minor league system and didn't make the bigs until 1963.
The only player I see on the roster that would have been on either the Reds or Braves in 1960 was Mathews. Cuellar was with the Reds in 1960, but I'm pretty sure he was in the minors and not a backup catcher. Buzhardt, Farrell and Owens all pitchers were with the Phillies in 60. Latman was wtih the Pale Hose as was Landis and Nellie, Sherry with the Dodgers, as well as Aspromonte and Lillis. Brandt was with the Orioles. Al Heist was with the Cubs, Busby was with the Red Sox.
Okay, I give, you've got me stumped.
Mathews also got into a fist fight with Jackie Robinson, August 1954, when Jackie came in "spikes high." This came as a result of the Dodgers Clem Labine drilling Milwaukee’s Joe Adcock in the head with a fastball, and the Braves’ Gene Conley retaliating by knocking down Jackie Robinson. Not sure how that brawl turned out.
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#2011982 - 10/24/12 03:44 PM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
[Re: trex]
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bbo
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That's pretty good detective work, Columbo. But it's not right.
Mathews told the story to the backup Houston catcher when they played together in 1967 in Houston. When the fight occurred in 1960, the catcher was playing for USC in college.
He also told me John Bateman was a jerk.
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#2011984 - 10/24/12 04:01 PM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
[Re: bbo]
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Mintacular
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First off, I don't think the Wilhelm RC should be on this list....As for Clemente, bringing up his humanitarian bonafides as "overrating" him misses the mark as collectors do not only collect based on pure statistical marks, as these men are more than just number crunchers and represent bigger ideals. Clemente also played on a small market team and meant so much to the city of Pittsburgh and kept the franchise alive and kicking. Also, Clemente was a one of a kind five-tool talent that played with a certain passion that is matched by nobody, or very few. I won't go into the racial aspect but he was a very important piece into bringing Latin players into MLB.
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#2011985 - 10/24/12 04:52 PM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
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33rdStreet
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I don't think saying he's a notch below Aaron is a knock on him or means he's over-rated I think his popularity comes from other area's as you mentioned. That card is higher than the Aaron on that list for hobby reasons not baseball reason's. It's a card that's harder to find in higher grades. I've been looking for a centered nm one for years it seems!!
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#2011986 - 10/24/12 04:55 PM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
[Re: 33rdStreet]
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33rdStreet
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An being from Baltimore I'm constantly reminded every time I see world series highlights of our golden days just how good Clemente could be! Only knocks on him were a lack of any real power and he was a little impatient at the plate.
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#2011990 - 10/25/12 04:28 AM
Re: 10 best 50s rookie cards
[Re: trex]
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gaugman
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I thought it was obvious that my version was made up.
I'll stop drinking!
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