#2012211 - 11/06/12 08:31 AM
Congrats to Peyton Manning...
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vintagetoppsguy
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on yet another NFL career record.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Peyto...ack-king-110512
Is he putting up some impressive numbers this year or what?
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#2012221 - 11/07/12 04:04 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: vintagetoppsguy]
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Toledo Mudhen
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Picked him up for next to nothing in my fantasy league draft. Have always been a Peyton fan. What a great season he's having.
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#2012225 - 11/07/12 08:05 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: vintagetoppsguy]
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cammb
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How could an "over-rated" quarterback be so good?
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#2012229 - 11/07/12 08:27 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: cammb]
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bbo
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How could an "over-rated" quarterback be so good?
Win another Super Bowl, maybe??
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#2012262 - 11/07/12 05:49 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: bbo]
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cammb
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Mike, did you happen to notice the record that Peyton Manning set?
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#2012263 - 11/07/12 07:28 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: cammb]
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bbo
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Haven't a clue. Don't pay much attention to playground stats.
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#2012395 - 11/12/12 11:16 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: BigRedOne]
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vintagetoppsguy
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Stat number records are meant to be broken and usually are, Luck now owns the Rookie Pasing yards Record. Maybe we better elevate him into the All-Time greats?
In an era where the rules are so lopsided against the defense and the qb's are recievers alowed to run and throw uncontested, regular season passing records are pretty much cosmedic.
Legends are made in the post season
John
John,
I understand what you're saying about the lopsided rules and I absolutely agree with you on that. I would not want to play defense back in the NFL today as the rules are so skewed against them. However, you have no proof whatsoever that the rules (lopsided as they are) are leading to an increase in passing yards or any other QB stat. Show me some research and maybe I'll change my mind.
The rules have changed in baseball as well. They've taken away the advantage of the pitcher and given it to the hitter. Nowdays, if a pitch gets away from you and is anywhere near the batter's head (or hits the batter), you get a warning or thrown out of the game. Also, you have these players that come up to the plate with almost full body armor allowing them to crowd the plate without the fear of being hit by the pitch. You would think all that would benfit the hitter. You would think that the number of HRs would be up. However, just the opposite is happening. Today's pitchers are better than they've been in years.
The rules of the game are going to change. As a player, you have to adapt to the rules and find ways to stay competitive.
Edited by vintagetoppsguy (11/12/12 11:16 AM)
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#2012397 - 11/12/12 03:48 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: BigRedOne]
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cammb
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Sometimes you sound like that you are playing along side Bronco Nagurski, complaing about the "young whippersnappers". I'm probably older than you and have seen the development of the NFL. I know one thing. Peyton Manning is a "great quarterback. Period.
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#2012398 - 11/12/12 04:11 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: cammb]
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vintagetoppsguy
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That's the key phrase right there. So many people don't consider the "development of the NFL" when making comparisons to players that played 50 years ago. The rules have changed. The game has changed. The players have changed. Starr and Unitas were each only 6'1" while Manning is 6'5". The players themselves have even gotten bigger. Not taking anything away from Starr or Unitas, but it would be interesting seeing them play in today's game. Could they put up the same kind of numbers they did back then? Who knows?
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#2012532 - 11/16/12 11:56 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: vintagetoppsguy]
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BigRedOne
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John,
I understand what you're saying about the lopsided rules and I absolutely agree with you on that. I would not want to play defense back in the NFL today as the rules are so skewed against them. However, you have no proof whatsoever that the rules (lopsided as they are) are leading to an increase in passing yards or any other QB stat. Show me some research and maybe I'll change my mind.
[/quote]
Dave
Im flabergasted! If you understand and agree on the lopsided passing rules of todays game, what more proof could you want.
These guys throw 40-50 passes a game! Why? Because it is virtualy impossible to stop!
Even the worst QB's in the league are able to put up ridiculous numbers.
When the QB's and WR's are untouchable its no secret why teams are able to pass that much.
Why do you think they changed the passing rules?
Because the fans like scoring and the new rules where implemented to do exactly that, allow more scoring. That is a no Brainer!
I always liked the Al Davis quote "In the first part of the game the opposing Quarterback must go down, and he must go down hard"
Unfortunately you can't touch them no more, so that stradegy no long a part of the game.
I also disagree about the size.(gee imagine that LOL)
There are plenty of sucessful modern QB's at 6' 1" Drew Brees seems to be quite successful. That kid from Seattle hasn't been doing to bad.
To answer your question about how the old Timer's would do. You know it's coming.................................................................................................................................................. If you gave Unitas, Starr and Staubach this kind of advantage over the defense they would absolutely destroy the modern day NFL.
So devastating the destuction would be that the league would have to start to consider changing the rules again as it would be just an absolute slaughter every game.
Even the Fans, who love all the scoring the new passing rules promoted and allowed would begin to
think.... "wait a minute, this is just to unfair, these old timers are just scoring at will"
Somebody would have to step in and stop the massacre! Probably tell Roger he had to take his ball home and not play, as it just wouldn't be fair.
John
Edited by BigRedOne (11/16/12 12:02 PM)
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#2012533 - 11/16/12 12:11 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: BigRedOne]
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gaugman
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WOW!
I think some of you guys are totally discounting the speed of todays game.
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#2012534 - 11/16/12 12:24 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: vintagetoppsguy]
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33rdStreet
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To stay Unitas, Starr and other hall of famers couldn't put up numbers today is a little crazy, if they could pick apart a defense after getting pounded into the deck again and again by head hunting lineman on an un manicured field. I'd say under the new rules they'd be just as good. Players are bigger and stronger because of modern technology, training year round and everything else. If they played today I'm sure Johnny U and Bart would still be 6 1 but closer to 225 not there 180 1950 selves.
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#2012535 - 11/16/12 12:42 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: 33rdStreet]
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33rdStreet
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Does anyone think today's players were born to be 265 to 365 speed demons? If I put them back in 1950 they'd be the size of players of that era if I brought the stars from the 50's to today they'd be bigger because of the capabilities of trainers, training etc of today. Greats are Greats in any era to me
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#2012543 - 11/16/12 01:51 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: 33rdStreet]
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Blackie
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Well said Daryl!!
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#2012548 - 11/16/12 02:23 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: Blackie]
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33rdStreet
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Someone had to say it Rob everyone seems to make the "if they played today they'd get crushed argument". Without giving the legends the benefit of today's players or taking away that benefit for modern stars. We all watch football, think we all have seen the game evolve. Everyone knows that today's QB's look there worst when hit to much or hurried alot. There passing numbers come back to earth quick. Let Rodger, Johnny or Bart sit in a pocket untouched ( unworried about being touched ) I'm sure they could hit a receiver given every possible advantage to get open.
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#2012550 - 11/16/12 04:34 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: 33rdStreet]
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Blackie
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I hear ya. Daryl I just wish I could find more Old Vintage games to watch. I mean full games from start to finish. Would love to see Larry Csonka crush through the backfield and to see John Unitas make the long throw. The see the passion of the game in Staubachs eyes as he looked downfield to see where to launch the ball.
Man.........there has to be some games out there on disk somewhere.
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#2012552 - 11/16/12 04:37 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: Blackie]
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Blackie
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Look at this clip of Jim Taylor..........wow........he is a bulldozer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx4a_XwZmg0
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#2012554 - 11/16/12 05:05 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: trex]
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Blackie
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Taylor seems to aim for the defenders.......love that stuff. In the last part of the video.......the defender looks scared to make a move on him.
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#2012558 - 11/16/12 08:26 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: trex]
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33rdStreet
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Athletes were real men back in the sixties, that's pretty much what players lack today in my opinion. They have some alternate reality created by the media and multi million dollar deals. Back in the sixties football and baseball players hardly ever felt safe in there job, always someone in the wings ready to take there job and that caused them to be hungry as hell. Rob, old football games to me are muddy fields, snow, lineman in casts, close ups where you can see the steam coming off the players! When I was a kid I thought they were gladiators and the meanest toughest bastards in the world. Nowadays I think they are whiney brats ( not all but a good many)
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#2012561 - 11/16/12 08:38 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: trex]
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33rdStreet
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You know what I loved about that clip Rob... He lowered his shoulder on every run, no sliding for the first there. Hard nosed smashmouth football.
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#2012564 - 11/16/12 08:45 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: 33rdStreet]
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Blackie
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He was earning every yard brother! Making the defense work hard to try and stop him. Great videos!
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#2012568 - 11/17/12 07:24 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: Blackie]
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BigRedOne
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NOW THAT'S FOOTBALL!
In all fairness Football is still a pretty brutal game even in the Modern era, you need to be a pretty tough sob to play it. I do understand the need the owners and players feel to help protect themselves, as it is more of a business and money game today.
There is no doubt that Payton Manning is one of the Elite QB's in the modern era. How one would fair in other era's will always be open for debate. One thing is for sure, Had Payton played in the "deadball" era, he most certainly would not have been putting up 30, 40, 50 Passes a game.
If he stayed healthy and was able to take the abuse and beatings QB's in that era took, its likely he could have had a hof career as well then.
Naturally Im bias torward players of the past because I strongly feel they played with more heart and soul and obviously for more than just money. I feel they had a deeper respect for the game and its history. Most of the players today would not be playing if not for the money, and probably rightfully so. They just are simply not as dedicated to the game beyond the money asspect as the heroes of the past were.
Another point I would like to make is about weather and field conditions. The majority of games played today are in tempeture control stadiums making the weather a non factor in most games played.
On the flip side, the old gridiron heroes often did not enjoy such a luxury. Ive often felt the game loses some of it gladiator appeal when the elements of Mud, Wind, Rain and Cold are removed from the equation. A few outdoor venues remain and its always more enjoyable to see games played in that setting.
The Vikings lost virtually all the great history they had at the old Metopolitan Stadium when they went to that Dome Staidium. Same with the lions. I can't even watch footballs played there.
How would you feel if the Bears and Packers both went inside to enviormentally controled dome stadiums?
One other Point I would like to make is the "Team". The great teams of the past were
cohesive units that many times played their whole careers together. There was more of a Team Spirt and honor for one's team. There was more of a kindship between the players. That Packer Dynasty was like a Family that played for each other.
Same could be said about many of the great teams of the Time. The Great Kansas City Chiefs Team.
This is all but lost in todays modern era.
Every year the sport an almost completely new roster. As a kid, a player or two might be swapped, but Cowboys were Cowboys and Redskins Were Redskins. having a favorite team now days is not really even possible.
I sure do long for when it was a game.
John
Edited by BigRedOne (11/17/12 07:46 AM)
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#2012623 - 11/18/12 08:41 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: trex]
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cammb
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That Y.A. Tittle photo sums it up
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#2012625 - 11/18/12 09:30 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: cammb]
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33rdStreet
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Naw those guys couldn't handle the game today????? Whatever!!!!
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#2012626 - 11/18/12 11:36 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: 33rdStreet]
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vintagetoppsguy
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To say that the guys back then couldn't handle the game of today is no more absurd than saying the guys of today couldn't handle the game back then. We'll never know.
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#2012627 - 11/18/12 12:03 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: vintagetoppsguy]
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bbo
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Many absurd things have been proffered on this board recently, especially regarding college football prognostications that simply did not come true. [e.g., Pretender State = FAIL]
Until this year, I had almost completely forgotten about 1998. Maybe Pretender State will make another aborted run in 14 years in 2026.
Good to see Mildcatfan handling it so well that the sigline has already been changed to lash out at what hurts the most. I understand that six (6) BCS championships in a row and eight (8) out of 14 is pretty tough to swallow for an SEC-hater. That sucker punch to the gut from 5-5 Baylor will eventually heal and scab over. But it will leave a(nother) nasty scar.
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#2012634 - 11/18/12 03:41 PM
Real reason Bama lost to A&M
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bbo
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I know many of us are perplexed that Alabama lost. Coach Saban was also concerned with his team's intensity and play during the game. When reviewing the game film and finding numerous errors, especially by the upperclassmen on the team, he was really concerned.
He was visibly distraught and confused that his most veteran players were making the most errors. When he confronted them, Barrett Jones, a senior lineman, stood up and spoke for the entire team.
"Coach, we're sorry that we let you and the University down, but we just couldn't stand the thought of having to go meet with Obama for a third time in just four short years."
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#2012638 - 11/19/12 03:52 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: BigRedOne]
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bbo
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+1
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#2012639 - 11/19/12 06:00 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: bbo]
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vintagetoppsguy
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Congrats to Peyton Manning, the greatest quarterback ever, on another great game throwing for 3 TDs.
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#2012640 - 11/19/12 06:03 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
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cammb
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+1
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#2012641 - 11/19/12 06:50 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: cammb]
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bbo
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-1 to Manning (not even in the top 5 this week):
1. M. Schaub HOU 527 yds, 5 TD's Final - OT
2. C. Henne JAC 354 yds, 4 TD's Final - OT
3. A. Luck IND 334 yds, 2 TD's Final
4. T. Brady NE 331 yds, 3 TD's Final
5. T. Romo DAL 313 yds Final - OT
But look who is at #4 this week, piling up huge yards, also with 3 TD passes, in spite of not needing to, with the outcome decided early and victory well in hand.
Long live Tom Brady, the best QB of his generation, with 3 (count 'em, 3) Super Bowl Rings and a 2012 victory over a yet-to-be-great Peyton Manning and his Broncos.
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#2012643 - 11/19/12 07:24 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: bbo]
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cammb
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So, you are finally admitting that Peyton Manning is Great, though not as great as Brady, but nonetheless, great. One down, one to go.
Edited by cammb (11/19/12 07:25 AM)
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#2012644 - 11/19/12 08:06 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: cammb]
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vintagetoppsguy
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So, you are finally admitting that Peyton Manning is Great, though not as great as Brady, but nonetheless, great. One down, one to go.
That's the way I took it as well.
This is real simple guys. NFL owners are no different than any other employer as to how they pay their players. Top performers make more money than average perfomers. Who is (and by far) the top paid QB (base salary) in the NFL today? Peyton Manning. Why is he the top paid QB? Because he is the top performer.
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#2012645 - 11/19/12 08:50 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: BigRedOne]
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gaugman
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First off, greats would be great no matter when they played, but I strongly disagree that the greats of 50 years ago are better and tougher than the stars of today and that the rule changes seem to prove that.
Today’s athlete is so much bigger and faster than the athletes of the 50’s and 60’s. Watching film from the good ole days, when there was always frigid temps and snow covered the field every game, (sarcasm) you see a much, much, much slower game.
When it comes to the size and speed of the atheletes much of it has to do with training and nutrition, but not all of it. The avg. size of man has gotten bigger and stronger through the centuries and to think that in the last 50-60 years man hasn’t continued to progress is wrong.
There are linemen today that are faster than many who played in the secondary just 40 years ago, and the size and weight of the football player at every position has gotten a lot larger. For whatever reason, that is a fact.
The speed of the game today is just incredible when compared to the game of the 60’s. It’s just the evolution of the game and all sports in general. This is also a fact.
Because today’s game is more pass oriented coaches have gone to drafting taller and stronger quarterbacks if for no other reason than because of the height and size of the defensive line. That doesn’t mean a shorter QB can’t compete but taller sure does help.
The rules of football, relating to safety, have not changed because the players today are wusses, they’ve changed to prevent someone from getting killed. Because of this speed and size, a defender launching himself helmet first like a missile at a defenseless receiver can no longer be allowed.
What I find funny is when someone says that the quarterback today stands in the pocket untouched. The game I think of right away was the playoff game in 2010 between the Saints and the Vikings. The beating Favre took in that game was unsurpassed and the fact he kept getting up was astonishing. Quarterbacks today take a beating just as much as ever, if not more. Being slammed onto the turf (not dirt) shoulder first and hitting their heads with up to 100 pounds more in body weight per player landing on top of them is just one more thing the greats of the past didn’t have to deal with. Unitas, Starr, Staubach, whomever, were not indestructible and if they played today the rules to prevent hitting below the knee and to the head would still have been put in effect.
I agree there have been bullsh!t calls, especially when the rules to protect the QB were first put in and enforced, but the refs have gotten better at letting them play.
Quarterbacks take a beating no matter what era they play in. The rules needed to be changed, not because the quarterbacks are inferior to their predecessors, but because a QB finishing the year without injury would likely be the exception.
Rich
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#2012646 - 11/19/12 09:05 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: gaugman]
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33rdStreet
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So in 40 years men will be giants?! Things call steroids and HGH are used today. That's a fact.
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#2012647 - 11/19/12 09:10 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: 33rdStreet]
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gaugman
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So in 40 years men will be giants?! Things call steroids and HGH are used today. That's a fact.
Soooo you agree with me or....what? What's your point
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#2012648 - 11/19/12 09:17 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: 33rdStreet]
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vintagetoppsguy
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So in 40 years men will be giants?! Things call steroids and HGH are used today. That's a fact.
Rich is right. People are getting bigger (women too) and it has nothing to do with steroids or HGH. In fact, they were talking about that on the radio this morning and it had nothing to do with athletes. It's just a fact, do your research.
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#2012649 - 11/19/12 09:17 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: gaugman]
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33rdStreet
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I think ball players Are bigger than ever because of differnt training, nutrition and a little extra help. I don't think a 260 pound man 40 years ago was weaker than a 260 pound man today. That man today has extra advantages that didn't exist then is all. The game is faster but given those same advantages the greats adapt just like the greats now adapt when the domes, the climate control is taken away and we make them play in the mud and rain. A great is great no matter when they played. Don't think anyone is wrong it's all an opinion just don't think the people are bigger naturally. Fatter maybe not stronger
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#2012650 - 11/19/12 09:25 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: 33rdStreet]
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gaugman
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I think ball players Are bigger than ever because of differnt training, nutrition and a little extra help. I don't think a 260 pound man 40 years ago was weaker than a 260 pound man today. That man today has extra advantages that didn't exist then is all. The game is faster but given those same advantages the greats adapt just like the greats now adapt when the domes, the climate control is taken away and we make them play in the mud and rain. A great is great no matter when they played. Don't think anyone is wrong it's all an opinion just don't think the people are bigger naturally. Fatter maybe not stronger
My point was why the rules had to be changed and that players today take a beating, maybe moreso then say 50 years ago. To say quaterbacks go untouched, even in jest is foolish. For whatever reason, athletes today are bigger, stronger, and much faster. Am I wrong?
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#2012651 - 11/19/12 09:34 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: gaugman]
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33rdStreet
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You really think players take a bigger beating now? Who can argue that players don't get crushed when hit today. It's a dangerous game played by enormous men. I think players in the past got hit more because certain rules didn't exist. I agree the rules have changed because players are bigger stronger and faster. I just think that's because they are chemically enhanced. That's the nature of the game. The only part of your comment I kind of disagree with is the fact that players are naturally bigger.
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#2012652 - 11/19/12 09:35 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: 33rdStreet]
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33rdStreet
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I saw leftwhich take a beating last night that's for sure.
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#2012653 - 11/19/12 09:55 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: vintagetoppsguy]
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bbo
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Ask Peyton Manning if he would swap places with Henne or Luck this week.
I think someone stole their CU username from this magazine cover. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
He would gladly swap places with Brady (who beat him once this year and has the tie breaker for home field), or Schaub (who has a 3-game lead on him for home field). Heck, Manning would love to be in any top 5 discussion week in and week out this year.
The reality is he trails Aaron Rodgers (your other over rated guy) in YTD QB rating and trails Brady in Super Bowl rings 3-1.
Uhh, Tom Cruise's character, Maverick, in the movie Top Gun pre-dates the SI cover. One of the most creative ebay handles in hobby history pre-dates the SI cover also. Research came up short a bit on this one.
Baylor 55 - Pretender State 24.
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#2012658 - 11/19/12 02:46 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: bbo]
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cammb
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Right now its between Manning and Rodgers for MVP. What would you say if Manning wins another MVP?
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#2012659 - 11/19/12 02:48 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: bbo]
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vintagetoppsguy
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It's funny how some like to make fun of other teams and kick them when they're down, but they never post who is their favorite team because they don't want others to do it to them. In other words, they can dish it out, but they don't have the guts to take it. LMAO!
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#2012662 - 11/19/12 04:22 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: cammb]
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bbo
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Right now its between Manning and Rodgers for MVP. What would you say if Manning wins another MVP?
Not the same as winning another Super Bowl, but if he someday does win a 2nd Super Bowl, I'd put him one Super Bowl behind Tom Brady, a truly great QB.
Pretender State = late season (erroneously) highly ranked, yet fulfilling a second collapse before the bowl games are even handed out. In 1998, it was Texas A&M. In 2012, it was Baylor. Pretender State might want to stay the H-E-double-hockey-sticks out of Texas.
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#2012663 - 11/19/12 04:28 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: vintagetoppsguy]
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bbo
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kick them when they're down
Like we didn't have to put up with all the bloviating about the girlie men of Pretender State and all the steamrolling of Little Sisters of the Poor. Show me an SEC (Seriously Exceptional Conference) contender who lost to a .500 team this year.
I'll save you some time and trouble. You have to dig all the way down to Arkansas and Tennessee to find a loss to a .500 or worse team. None of the top ten SEC teams have lost to a .500 or worse team all year. Maybe that's why there are so many SEC teams in the top 10 in the nation.
I look forward to the Cotton Bowl, don't you? That should be a really good game, SEC vs. Big Little 12.
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#2012664 - 11/19/12 05:44 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: bbo]
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vintagetoppsguy
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I think you're just upset because 'ol #44 Forrest Gump didn't win the Heisman even though he was the best player to ever grace a Bama uniform. You do know that movie wasn't real, right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0Y_4WqZg7o
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#2012666 - 11/19/12 06:30 PM
Schlabach: K-state to Alamo Bowl
[Re: bbo]
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bbo
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Oh, no! Mark Schlabach of ESPN has K-state slated for the Alamo Bowl vs. UCLA, meaning they lose to Texas in Manhattan (KS, not NY) next week.
Whoa! What a fall! From #1 to the Alamo Bowl in San Antonio. You like San Antonio. Probably have relatives there and a comfy place to stay, too.
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#2012667 - 11/19/12 06:44 PM
Re: Schlabach: K-state to Alamo Bowl
[Re: bbo]
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vintagetoppsguy
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Anybody remember OJ and the chase in the white Ford Bronco? What you may not know is that he was actually headed for Tuscaloosa. He knew the police would never look for a Heisman Trophy winner there.
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#2012676 - 11/19/12 07:07 PM
Re: Schlabach: K-state to Alamo Bowl
[Re: vintagetoppsguy]
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bbo
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Didn't Peyton Manning, the "greatest" QB ever to NOT win multiple Super Bowls and never win an NCAA championship, didn't he win the Heisman?
No?
Oh, then he must've been the over-rated one. Surely not some lousy 6th-round, long-haired punk kid from Cali, then Michigan who lucked into 3 Super Bowl rings (and one hot babe!).
Speaking of OJ. I recently wrote him a letter. I sent it to his prison cell. Here's a copy.
Dear OJ,
I think you were a great running back. I followed your career through college and the professional ranks. I wish I could have won the Heisman. I think you're innocent and I hope you get out soon. By the way, while you've been away, David (vintagetoppsguy on the SGC board) has been sleeping with your girlfriend.
Sincerely,
Collin Klein
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#2012679 - 11/19/12 07:22 PM
Re: Schlabach: K-state to Alamo Bowl
[Re: bbo]
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vintagetoppsguy
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Dear OJ,
I think you were a great running back. I followed your career through college and the professional ranks. I wish I could have won the Heisman. I think you're innocent and I hope you get out soon. By the way, while you've been away, David (vintagetoppsguy on the SGC board) has been sleeping with your girlfriend.
Sincerely,
Colin Klein
And OJ wrote back...
Dear Colin,
Thank you for the letter. It is much appreciated. I don't get much interaction from the outside while in prison, except those conjugal visits from bbo. Colin, you are a good quarterback, but you need some refinement if you’re going to make it in the NFL. I suggest studying film of the greatest quarterback ever, Peyton Manning. Mirror your career after his and you will have much success.
Your friend,
OJ
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#2012680 - 11/19/12 07:34 PM
Re: Schlabach: K-state to Alamo Bowl
[Re: vintagetoppsguy]
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bbo
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I wouldn't think OJ would be into that, unless you know something the rest of us don't. That loss to Baylor really stings, doesn't it? Maybe you should put some ice on it.
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#2012681 - 11/20/12 02:02 AM
Re: Schlabach: K-state to Alamo Bowl
[Re: bbo]
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Toledo Mudhen
Just got here
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u guys are crackin me up...lolol
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#2012684 - 11/20/12 03:30 AM
Re: Baylor dishes out humble pie
[Re: vintagetoppsguy]
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bbo
The Collectinator
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It's funny how some like to make fun of other teams and kick them when they're down, but they never post who is their favorite team because they don't want others to do it to them. In other words, they can dish it out, but they don't have the guts to take it. LMAO!
It's funny how some like to pump up their team when they are winning, but they never post about them (except to make excuses and whine) after coughing up a #1 ranking to a .500 squad of southern baptists. Could it be because they don't want to draw attention to their legacy of choking? In other words, they can dish it out, but tuck tail and hide when exposed. LMAO!
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#2012685 - 11/20/12 03:36 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: bbo]
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Toledo Mudhen
Just got here
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OK I'm a Raiders Fan... and a Mizzou Fan... Yea I know..The year sux (as does every year). There - Now I said it. I'm out of the closet.
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#2012688 - 11/20/12 05:51 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: bbo]
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vintagetoppsguy
veteran
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It's funny how some like to pump up their team when they are winning, but they never post about them (except to make excuses and whine) after coughing up a #1 ranking to a .500 squad of southern baptists.
It must suck to get old, lose your memory and turn senile. I don't know which message board you're reading, but my exact words on this message board were, "K-State had their butt handed to them tonight" and "we just got outplayed." No excuses. No whining.
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#2012692 - 11/20/12 07:00 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: bbo]
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vintagetoppsguy
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If Manning's Broncos face the Texans in the playoffs, won't that put you between a rock and a hard place?
Go Broncos!
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#2012694 - 11/20/12 07:59 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning...
[Re: vintagetoppsguy]
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bbo
The Collectinator
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Good to know. Duly noted.
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#2012782 - 11/22/12 07:27 PM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: bbo]
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bbo
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Congratulations to Tom Brady on 3 first half TD's against the Jets. Proving again, to be the best QB of his generation in leading his team to prominence year after year after year.
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#2012789 - 11/23/12 03:52 AM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: BigRedOne]
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bbo
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Tony Romo and Jerry Jones deserve each other. I hope their relationship continues for another 10 years in its current form.
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#2012791 - 11/23/12 04:32 AM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: bbo]
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cammb
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Registered: 12/30/10
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Except when they play the NYG.
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#2012794 - 11/23/12 05:18 AM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: BigRedOne]
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cammb
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Considering that Romo had to play catch up the whole game, thats only 13 attempts more than Staubachs 49, and that game was only 20-17!
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#2012795 - 11/23/12 06:02 AM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: bbo]
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trex
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Tony Romo and Jerry Jones deserve each other. I hope their relationship continues for another 10 years in its current form.
+100
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#2012798 - 11/23/12 07:41 AM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: trex]
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gaugman
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I can understand Jerry Jones but why the hatred for Romo?
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#2012804 - 11/23/12 01:16 PM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: cammb]
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BigRedOne
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Considering that Romo had to play catch up the whole game, thats only 13 attempts more than Staubachs 49, and that game was only 20-17!
Only 13 more? Its 43 more than Staubach threw in SB VI 24-3
And its not a one game occurance in the Modern day NFL. 40-50 attempts
Don't be a knucklehead in trying to compare the two eras.
John
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#2012816 - 11/23/12 03:56 PM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: BigRedOne]
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cammb
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Look in the mirror when you say dont compare the two eras because thats excatly what you are doing.
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#2013498 - 12/10/12 07:58 PM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: cammb]
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bbo
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Anyone watching Terrific Tom Brady, the greatest QB of his generation, carving up the Texans, the team with the best record in the NFL? Four TD passes in two and one-half quarters.
ESPN showed a stat in the first half. Brady is ahead of both Montana and P.Manning for Division Championships 10 to 9 and 9.
And another ESPN stat: Most games in a career (14) with at least 4 TD passes and 0 INT's. Favre is 2nd with 12. Manning only has 10 such games and ranks T-3rd.
For a 6th round draft choice, Brady doesn't fit the mold of "an overrated QB" in my book.
Apparently, too, in Jon "Chuckie" Gruden's book. Near the end of the game, Gruden said to Tritico, "I can argue that Brady is the greatest QB of all-time to ever play the game."
I guess that puts P. Manning in a spot looking up to Mr. Brady. At least in Chuckie's book. (And no one has said a word in weeks, literally weeks, about 3 SB wins to just 1.)
Mmmwwwhhhaaaaaaaaaaa.
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#2013504 - 12/11/12 03:31 AM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: BigRedOne]
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bbo
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That's a good moniker for this board. lol
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#2013507 - 12/11/12 08:52 AM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: bbo]
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cammb
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So now stats are ok? Did anybody say 4 MVPs and possibly one more this year. I guess "crickets" will be in order.
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#2013511 - 12/11/12 10:04 AM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: cammb]
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bbo
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I'm just playing in your sandbox (stats). When your guy has 3 Super Bowl rings, you can come play in my sandbox (Championships).
If the season ended today, the featured 2nd round AFC game would pit Broncos at Patriots. Wouldn't that be sweet?
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#2013533 - 12/13/12 04:49 AM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: BigRedOne]
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cammb
old hand
Registered: 12/30/10
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Again, thats your opinion shared by the few.
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#2013534 - 12/13/12 04:59 AM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: BigRedOne]
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gaugman
enthusiast
Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 295
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There's many great quarterbacks who are
It's unfair for a quarterback to be considered great only if he compares to Tom Brady, who some (experts) believe may be the best of all time.
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#2013584 - 12/14/12 02:25 AM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: gaugman]
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Toledo Mudhen
Just got here
Registered: 09/18/05
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For me it will always be Unitas who was every kid's hero back in the day. The game was different then back in the early 60s and I remember that we played sandlot every saturday morning and the biggest decision of the day was "who would be Johnny U that week". No one can ever change that for me.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXy-Ha-ytXw
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#2013585 - 12/14/12 03:10 AM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady...
[Re: Toledo Mudhen]
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33rdStreet
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Johnny U! As I always say compare based off the era they played! I'd concede to most that Brady is this Era's Johnny U. No sense comparing the two. Differnt time differnt game
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#2014141 - 12/30/12 07:00 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: 33rdStreet]
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vintagetoppsguy
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Congrats to Peyton Manning and the Denver Broncos for having the best record in the AFC and tied for the best record in the NFL. I'm rooting for the Denver throughout the playoffs. In the NFC, I'm rooting for Seattle.
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Collecting 1965 Topps High #'s SGC 88 or better: 10/91
BUYING Well Centered:
1956 Topps SGC 84 or Better (or raw equivalent)
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#2014142 - 12/30/12 07:12 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: vintagetoppsguy]
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vintagetoppsguy
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Picked up a Bowman Chrome Manning RC today. I don't have much shiny stuff, but I couldn't pass this up for the price.
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Collecting 1965 Topps High #'s SGC 88 or better: 10/91
BUYING Well Centered:
1956 Topps SGC 84 or Better (or raw equivalent)
1965 Topps SGC 88 or Better (or raw equivalent)
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#2014150 - 12/31/12 06:50 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: vintagetoppsguy]
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gaugman
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Congrats to Peyton Manning and the Denver Broncos for having the best record in the AFC and tied for the best record in the NFL. I'm rooting for the Denver throughout the playoffs. In the NFC, I'm rooting for Seattle.
I'm rooting for Seatle too and I would love to see them win in all, but New England at Denver is THE game I'm looking forward to. I just hope they both win their games to get there.
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#2014164 - 12/31/12 08:12 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: gaugman]
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DrD
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All that SOB does is win ---- and hawk every product he can throw his sig on....
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"The government’s view of the economy could be summed up.....If it moves, TAX it. If it keeps moving, REGULATE it. And if it stops moving, SUBSIDIZE it.”.....President Reagan, 1986
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#2014168 - 12/31/12 08:24 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: vintagetoppsguy]
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KRB
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Picked up a Bowman Chrome Manning RC today. I don't have much shiny stuff, but I couldn't pass this up for the price.
Lucky, i kept my Manning cards after his neck injury.
His prices should go back up considering...
if he is MVP, SuperBowl...and etc..
Heres one i kept:
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#2014169 - 12/31/12 08:38 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: KRB]
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DrD
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I am not familiar with GMA grading.
_________________________
"The government’s view of the economy could be summed up.....If it moves, TAX it. If it keeps moving, REGULATE it. And if it stops moving, SUBSIDIZE it.”.....President Reagan, 1986
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#2014171 - 12/31/12 08:51 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: DrD]
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KRB
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I am not familiar with GMA grading.
LOL...i meant to crossover this card, never did.
Consider GMA as one of those " We grade for your satisfaction" companies.
_________________________
collect Mickey Mantle and etc.
baseball & football.
WANT LIST:
61 #406, 62 #53, 65 #5, 68 #490, 75 #194 and 52 #311 RC & Bowman(not 51/52/53), DanDee, and more
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#2014174 - 12/31/12 10:22 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: vintagetoppsguy]
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cammb
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Congratulations to the best quarterback playing today. To achieve this after several neck injuries is amazing.
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#2014765 - 01/12/13 08:32 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: cammb]
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bbo
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...on a fine (regular) season. So, what else is new for Mr. Over Rated? LMAO. This is the fifth time one of Manning's teams have gone one-and-done despite hosting their first playoff game. Manning's teams are just 9-11 in the playoffs. A staggering eight of those losses have come when they were favored, according to Covers.com archives. Three of the losses were as double-digit favorites. NOTE: This, my fine-feathered furry friends, is the textbook definition of over-rated. Look it up in Webster's. You'll see a picture of Peyton Manning.
And there was that interception.
Manning rolled right late in the first overtime. He has never been great on the move. It was just second-and-6, so a throwaway wasn't too damaging. But he threw back to the middle of the field. The most "cerebral" quarterback in the NFL couldn't have made a worse decision.
I suppose I could say, "I told you so."
I told you so.
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#2014774 - 01/13/13 05:35 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: BigRedOne]
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bbo
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Yeah, I wonder where the SGC-board defense team is this morning? F. Lee Bailey? Perry Mason? Rusty Hardin? Anybody home?? Time to wake up and smell the coffee.
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#2014775 - 01/13/13 05:37 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: BigRedOne]
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bbo
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I was absolutely shocked by that pass. It was right out of the playbook of Tony Romo.
Actually, it was right out of the playbook of Peyton Manning. Your comment is insulting to Tony Romo.
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#2014776 - 01/13/13 05:43 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: BigRedOne]
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bbo
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I was kind of looking forward to another Brady Matchup.
Im tired of him winning all the time as well so Im hoping New England gets knocked out as well and we can see some new blood for a change.
I'm both a Texans fan and a Brady fan, so I can't lose today. Clearly Kapernick, Flacco, possibly Ryan, and certainly Luck are the future of NFL QB's. It'll be interesting to see which one(s) rise to greatness and stardom over the long haul. If any.
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#2014787 - 01/13/13 10:26 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: bbo]
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cammb
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Registered: 12/30/10
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The game was won until the final 30 seconds when his defense let him down. Dont blame him. But of course you will.
Edited by cammb (01/13/13 10:27 AM)
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#2014789 - 01/13/13 10:32 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: cammb]
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KRB
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Registered: 10/31/12
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Yeah, i thought Denver had it in the bag in the 4th qtr. Blown coverages.
There was :30 sec left in the 4th after Balt's TD. And all Denver did was knee it.
_________________________
collect Mickey Mantle and etc.
baseball & football.
WANT LIST:
61 #406, 62 #53, 65 #5, 68 #490, 75 #194 and 52 #311 RC & Bowman(not 51/52/53), DanDee, and more
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#2014792 - 01/13/13 11:29 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: cammb]
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bbo
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The game was never "won" until it was over. The "smartest" QB in the league couldn't convince his coaches to take a shot at moving into FG range with 0:31 to go in regulation and two time outs available. The "smartest" QB in the league couldn't throw it away on 2nd and 6 in OT, but rather forced a bad throw while scampering away from a rushing lineman. I don't know why the Manning lovers can't see it. He's not clutch in the clutch, he's more like a Model-T that backfires. It's like he has a brain fart or something. It's time to find another QB to salivate over if you want to follow playoff winners. If you're happy with a regular season, stat-sheet stuffer, who plays well in domed stadiums, then stay with PM.
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#2014793 - 01/13/13 11:41 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: bbo]
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cammb
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Its nice to be at home armchair quarterbacking and not actually playing the game. You've got your Texans an Brady coming up. Cant wait for your excuses when they go down. Dont worry, I will be there armchair quarterbacking too.
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#2014794 - 01/13/13 11:45 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: cammb]
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vintagetoppsguy
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The game was won until the final 30 seconds when his defense let him down. Dont blame him. But of course you will.
Cammb nailed it. I agree that the defense let him down, but it wasn't just the final 30 seconds - it was the entire game. We can all agree that Manning made a bad throw. There is no doubt about that. However, that interception did not cost them the game. Kaepernick threw a pick 6, but it didn't cost the 49ers their game. So, what's the difference? Timing of the interception? One could argue that, but that's not it. The problem was that the Broncos secondary got burned the entire game (costing them the game) and Manning should have never been put in the position to even make that throw.
Peyton Manning did what he had to do to put his team in a position to win. He threw 3 TD passes. Special teams did what they had to do to put their team in a position to win. They ran back a punt and kickoff for TDs. The problem was that the defense didn't do what they needed to do. Plain and simple. If the defense did their part, Manning wouldn't have even been in the position to make that throw.
To me, it all falls on the shoulder of the coaching. I said it here on the boards on October 15th (you can search it) that John Fox is the worst coach in the NFL today. At the end of regulation when the Broncos got the ball backwith 31 seconds and had two timeouts, why in the world didn't they at least try to put themselves in position for a FG? Apparently I'm not the only one that feels that way because even the announcers were "scratching their heads" as it made no sense. It's also on the coaches to make adjustments in the secondary. You'd think after they got burnt once they would make adjustments, right? Nope. After they got burned the second time? Nope. They got burned multiple times and made the secondary look like bunch of pee wee players.
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Collecting 1965 Topps High #'s SGC 88 or better: 10/91
BUYING Well Centered:
1956 Topps SGC 84 or Better (or raw equivalent)
1965 Topps SGC 88 or Better (or raw equivalent)
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#2014802 - 01/13/13 01:37 PM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: BigRedOne]
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bbo
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BigRedOne nailed it. Denver defense had nothing to do with Manning's ill-advised pass that DIRECTLY cost them the game. Manning admitted as much after the game. He knows he sux in the clutch. Enjoy the rest of the post season.
As for cammb's comment, I am both a Texans fan and a Brady/Belichek/NE fan, so I can't lose today. Either way, I'm dancing. Unless Brady throws a bunch of pick 6's, Belichek has a heart attack and the backup QB for NE leads the Patriots to the next round, but are disqualified for cheating or something. I guess it "could" happen, [said the pig as he flew by].
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#2014807 - 01/13/13 05:13 PM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady
[Re: bbo]
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bbo
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Congratulations to Tom Brady, now the QB with the most playoff wins (17) in the history of pro football and the New England Patriots for having made the AFC Championship game yet again. With or without one more Super Bowl Ring, Tom Brady will have already cemented his name as the Best To Ever Play the Game of his era.
Not bad for a 6th round draft choice who continues to overachieve.
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#2014812 - 01/13/13 06:23 PM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady
[Re: bbo]
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hitman
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Denver's defense blew the game, Manning lost the game.I believe that throw was just like Favre's in the overtime lost to N.O.few years back.I still think he is a great qb just made a game turning pick.
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#2014813 - 01/13/13 06:42 PM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady
[Re: hitman]
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cammb
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Thats all Im saying.
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#2014814 - 01/13/13 06:43 PM
Re: Congrats to Tom Brady
[Re: cammb]
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cammb
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The Falcons showed Denver how to play the game with 30 seconds to go. Congratulations to them. The best playoff game yet.
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#2014822 - 01/14/13 06:03 AM
Re: Congrats to Peyton Manning
[Re: cammb]
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aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...
Registered: 02/22/02
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The game was won until the final 30 seconds when his defense let him down. Dont blame him. But of course you will.
I could not believe Manning knelt on the final play of the
4th quarter. I guess Coach Fox is going to always take
a conservative approach. I thought it was a bad move when
it happened.
Manning was a great QB but his time has passed. He had
the benefit of a weak division this year. I was not surprised
they were one and done. Thought they had it won but it
is never over til its over.
aconte
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