Page all of 8 12345>Last »
Topic Options
#2012401 - 11/13/12 05:39 AM Hall of Fame
gaugman
enthusiast


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 295
Loc: new jersey

Offline
If you could add someone to the HOF in any of this countries four major sports, who would it be?

In order to add a player you think should be enshrined, you have to take someone out.

If you add a catcher to the Hall, you must remove a catcher. Replace a quaterback with a quaterback, a center with a center, ect.

I would add Vern Stephens and take out Phil Rizzuto.

Top
#2012407 - 11/13/12 08:31 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: gaugman]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Got a list of who I would take out! Always thought that hodges belongs based on who's in now. I mean Ron Santo but no Gil Hodges?! Anyway I think he belongs but as far as dropping a first baseman to put him in, think everyone in there now belongs.
Top
#2012514 - 11/16/12 05:16 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
blonski
stranger


Registered: 11/14/12
Posts: 24
Loc: woodstock

Offline
ken anderson should be in. i don't think joe namath belongs.
Top
#2012515 - 11/16/12 05:17 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: blonski]
blonski
stranger


Registered: 11/14/12
Posts: 24
Loc: woodstock

Offline
but i'd rather party with namath
Top
#2012524 - 11/16/12 06:52 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: blonski]
brewing
journeyman


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 83
Loc: Georgia

Offline
I'd drop Tinker for Alan Trammell and Evers for Lou Whitaker.
Top
#2012557 - 11/16/12 06:49 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: brewing]
brick
addict


Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 511
Loc: Central Ohio

Offline
Not a chance.
_________________________
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/


Top
#2012716 - 11/20/12 02:03 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: brewing]
FYS
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 1665
Loc: Michigan - The Spartan State

Offline
 Originally Posted By: brewing
I'd drop Tinker for Alan Trammell and Evers for Lou Whitaker.


I like this brewing guy.
_________________________
1984 W.S. Champs RC's



Top
#2012717 - 11/20/12 02:16 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: FYS]
FYS
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 1665
Loc: Michigan - The Spartan State

Offline
Trammell over Aparicio, Rizzuto and Reese.
_________________________
1984 W.S. Champs RC's



Top
#2012719 - 11/20/12 02:26 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: FYS]
FYS
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 1665
Loc: Michigan - The Spartan State

Offline
Whitaker over Fox and Mazeroski.
_________________________
1984 W.S. Champs RC's



Top
#2012721 - 11/20/12 02:31 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: FYS]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Think you have an argument on aparicio and rizzuto but not Reese. He was the leader of those great dodger teams. That's gotta count for something. Not like he was a slouch either.
Top
#2012722 - 11/20/12 02:33 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Maz was like Brooks Robinson at third as far as defense goes. If you take him out take smith out instead if Reese he couldn't hit his way out of a wet paper bag his first ten years.
Top
#2012723 - 11/20/12 02:33 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
FYS
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 1665
Loc: Michigan - The Spartan State

Offline
Jack Morris over Drysdale,
_________________________
1984 W.S. Champs RC's



Top
#2012724 - 11/20/12 02:35 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
FYS
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 1665
Loc: Michigan - The Spartan State

Offline
 Originally Posted By: 33rdStreet
Maz was like Brooks Robinson at third as far as defense goes. If you take him out take smith out instead if Reese he couldn't hit his way out of a wet paper bag his first ten years.


I'm only looking to kick one out at each position to get Tram and Whitaker in, the rest can stay:)
_________________________
1984 W.S. Champs RC's



Top
#2012725 - 11/20/12 02:38 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: FYS]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Why Drysdale why not Vic Willis or an old timer like red faber. Drysdale had close to 50 shutouts and played on a team that couldn't hit a damn. I think Morris belongs though
Top
#2012733 - 11/20/12 03:32 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
cammb
old hand


Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 890
Loc: Jamesport, NY

Offline
Jack Morris for sure.
Top
#2012886 - 11/25/12 08:10 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: cammb]
blonski
stranger


Registered: 11/14/12
Posts: 24
Loc: woodstock

Offline
i'd take out jim bunning. put in tommy john or tiant or jack morris? they are all border line in my opinion. i'll wait for mussina not to get in first try and replace bunning with him.
Top
#2012891 - 11/25/12 10:41 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: blonski]
bbo
The Collectinator


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3376
Loc: Top of the 1959 Registry

Offline
Jim Bunning may hold the all-time record for 19-game winning seasons. No one else in his era fell one win short of 20 games so many times. And he did it in both leagues, AL-Detroit and NL-Phillies.
_________________________
#1 in 1959 Topps. Officially known as Assassin according to stanthemanfan 3/31/2014 and god of minor league basketball according to cammb.

Top
#2012899 - 11/25/12 03:15 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: bbo]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
When Bunning hung them up he was pretty high on the strikeout list to, back before EVERY ball player thought a strikeout was no big deal. Use to be seen as a bad thing now guys just say hey.... Look at my OPS, my secondary batting average, errors after labor day etc etc etc etc. I read somewhere that Stan Musial had one three strikeout game his whole career! For a man that nearly hit 500 homeruns that's amazing!!
Top
#2012948 - 11/28/12 06:53 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
gaugman
enthusiast


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 295
Loc: new jersey

Offline
 Originally Posted By: 33rdStreet
Maz was like Brooks Robinson at third as far as defense goes. If you take him out take smith out instead if Reese he couldn't hit his way out of a wet paper bag his first ten years.


I respectfully disagree if you are comparing Maz to Brooks.

Robinson won 16 consecutive gold gloves with Mazeroski winning 8 and 5 were consecutive.

Maz finished in the top 10 in MVP voting once while coming in 8th.
Robinson finished in the top ten 7 times winning it once.

Brooks Robinson was a much better hitter but if you were to just take defense into the equation, for you sabermetric fans, Maz had a very good Defensive War at 23.8 which is good for 21st all time. Brooks is ranked 3rd with a career 38.8.

BTW first all time in defenseive war is Ozzie Smith

Top
#2012951 - 11/28/12 07:25 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: gaugman]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
I'm from Baltimore, people dont just love Brooks there they name kids after the guy! I am completley biased when it comes to him and illogical in fact no one can change my opinion that he's the greatest third baseman ever. All I said was Maz was LIKE Brooks meaning him, Brooks and Smith are in the Hall because of there gloves. Plus just a comment but the gold glove is completly subjective and based on nothing IMO I mean Jeter wins them!!!!
Top
#2012952 - 11/28/12 07:37 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
gaugman
enthusiast


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 295
Loc: new jersey

Offline
I agree with you that Mazeroski is in the Hall because of his glove. I agree that the Gold Glove is subjective. My disagreement is that you implied Brooks is in the Hall only because of his glove.

I'm not saying this stat proves me right but I want to throw it out there just because;
Brooks is 42nd all time in career WAR.
Mazeroski is #389.

I agree with those who say Maz may not belong,
Brooks Robinson belongs.

Top
#2012953 - 11/28/12 07:58 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: gaugman]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Ok like I said I love Brooks as much as the next Baltoimorian but if Brooks had just an above average glove and not the other worldly glove described by Johnny Bench and Sparky after the 70 series he's on the outside looking in IMO. He couldnt run, he even said it hisself that hitting was always a challenge for him. I never once said Brooks doesnt belong, he's a legend but thats because of his glove not his bat. The last thing I would do is complain if Maz wasnt in the Hall even with his glove as good as it was I think any baseball fan admits Maz famous for one thing really....the home run in 60
Top
#2012955 - 11/28/12 08:20 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
gaugman
enthusiast


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 295
Loc: new jersey

Offline
Baltoimorian? LOL

I think we agree more than we disagree.

If Brooks Robonson hit like Mazeroski he would not have received 92% of the vote for enshrinement. The most Maz ever got was in his first year with 42% and in his final year he got only 6%.
It's more than just his glove

Top
#2012956 - 11/28/12 08:25 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: gaugman]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Yeah I mispelled it plus it sounds stupid lol but thats what we call ourselves.

I think alot of it has to do with how respected Brooks was...I mean have you ever heard of someone NOT liking Brooks Robinson?!?!. He had the MVP, was the series MVP and the 16 gold gloves thats pretty much his resume. Maz cant come close to that I wasnt arguing that at all. I think Brooks had maybe a decent 10 year span with the bat, his glove was always legendary though

Top
#2012957 - 11/28/12 08:26 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
gaugman
enthusiast


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 295
Loc: new jersey

Offline
Agree
Top
#2012969 - 11/28/12 01:20 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: gaugman]
blonski
stranger


Registered: 11/14/12
Posts: 24
Loc: woodstock

Offline
does bonds belong? i dislike him as much as the next guy but he would have made it even if he never had taken ped's. should he not be allowed in just for taking them? is it cheating if it wasn't banded from baseball and anyone was able to buy it over the counter?
Top
#2012970 - 11/28/12 01:48 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: blonski]
gaugman
enthusiast


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 295
Loc: new jersey

Offline
As great as Bond's numbers are, I was surprised he only lead the league in Homers twice and RBI once.(goes to show just how many players were taking ped's) Of course his BB and OPS are off the charts. For you sabermetric fans, he was only second in WAR to Ruth.
I believe he started using in 2000.

Not 2000 but 1999


Edited by gaugman (11/29/12 08:41 AM)

Top
#2012971 - 11/28/12 03:13 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: gaugman]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
I say no mostly because of all off them he just seemed to be giving baseball the middle finger! Just seemed that way to me.
Top
#2012972 - 11/28/12 03:17 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
cammb
old hand


Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 890
Loc: Jamesport, NY

Offline
No to Bonds. He was just arrogant and I couldn't stand the way he just stood at the pate and admired his home runs. I wish Bob Gibson was pitching, he would have taken his arrogant head off!
Top
#2012973 - 11/28/12 03:28 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: cammb]
bbo
The Collectinator


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3376
Loc: Top of the 1959 Registry

Offline
+1 for Gibson
+1 for Drysdale, too.
Koufax wouldn't have thrown at him, but Sandy would have buckled his knees with that curve ball.
_________________________
#1 in 1959 Topps. Officially known as Assassin according to stanthemanfan 3/31/2014 and god of minor league basketball according to cammb.

Top
#2012977 - 11/28/12 06:33 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: bbo]
cammb
old hand


Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 890
Loc: Jamesport, NY

Offline
Forgot about Drysdale.
Top
#2012978 - 11/28/12 08:43 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: bbo]
SMtJoy
veteran


Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 1503

Offline
I sure hope not.
Top
#2012981 - 11/29/12 02:47 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: SMtJoy]
Toledo Mudhen
Just got here


Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 409
Loc: Texas

Offline
OK let me poke at the hornet's nest..... I say both Rose & Bonds need to be in.
Top
#2012982 - 11/29/12 03:18 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: Toledo Mudhen]
bbo
The Collectinator


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3376
Loc: Top of the 1959 Registry

Offline
OTOH, I say keep 'em both out. It used to be the Hall of Fame, then it became the Hall of Pretty Good, but it should never be the Hall of Shame.
_________________________
#1 in 1959 Topps. Officially known as Assassin according to stanthemanfan 3/31/2014 and god of minor league basketball according to cammb.

Top
#2012986 - 11/29/12 05:01 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: bbo]
gaugman
enthusiast


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 295
Loc: new jersey

Offline
There are plenty of people already in the Hall that belong in the Shame Wing. I've already had this discussion with bbo about Rose and I disagree with him. As far as Bonds, I don't think him being an a**hole should keep him out. He was one hell of a ball player. I'm still on the fence about him only because I agree with those who feel he was a Hall of Famer before he did PED's
Top
#2012990 - 11/29/12 05:19 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Joe Jackson was a HOF'er before he threw the series to....I think Bonds should be on the outside looking in. Do I believe he was a HOF talent, yes I do, before the steriod's, yes but it was so blatant on his part so obvious that he cheated and continued to do so.
Top
#2012993 - 11/29/12 06:16 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
bbo
The Collectinator


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3376
Loc: Top of the 1959 Registry

Offline
Look, this is not all that difficult. Baseball as a sport is full of great players, but the Hall of Fame is reserved for the best of the best who play by the rules. To my knowledge, there is no morals clause regarding outside activities and personal biases for admittance to the baseball HOF. But there were signs in every clubhouse during Rose's association with the game that read, "No gambling," harkening back to the Black Sox Scandal that nearly killed the sport. Rose basically said, "That doesn't apply to me; I'm bigger than the game."

Same for PED. Bonds, Clemens, etal said the same as Rose while thumbing their noses at the fans.

Sadly, our culture compromises on what is wrong or else we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's nothing less than the Dumbing Down of America, Slouching Towards Gommorah and Failure of Standards.

I don't get a vote; therefore, neither Rose nor Bonds will get any help from me. Whether or not they get help from 75% of the sportswriters is of no concern to me.

But if they get in despite cheating the game, every voter is telling his kid and any other kid, "break the rules of the game and it doesn't matter."
_________________________
#1 in 1959 Topps. Officially known as Assassin according to stanthemanfan 3/31/2014 and god of minor league basketball according to cammb.

Top
#2012998 - 11/29/12 01:38 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: bbo]
trex
addict


Registered: 01/31/12
Posts: 592

Offline
Very well said Mike, very well said, and IMO spot on, on all points. As much is I loved watching Pete Rose play the game and there is no doubt whatsoever he was one of the absolute greats to play the game, I cannot get past his disregard for the integrity of the game he loved so much.

Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, A-Rod, when he becomes eligible, the arrogance alone of this group is enough for me to say never. Probably a good thing I don't have a vote. Clemens, I dunno, maybe the jury is still out on him, for me. Maybe because he's from Texas, lol.

Now there are those that say, it's been done all along. I really can't prove otherwise, but it's really hard for me to believe that "Stan the Man", "Say Hey", "Hammerin Hank", Roberto, "The Splinter", "Gibby", "Spahnnie", "Sandy" to name a few took anything to enhance their performance. I'll bet if anyone bothered to look, their weight, or bulk never varied that much through their entire career. Now "the Mick", well I never knew alcohol enhanced performance, probably no telling where he would be in the record books today had he not have bent that elbow so much. But who knows.

Sadly, BBO is right, we are witnessing the "Dumbing Down of America" or "America, Home of Entitlements." The role model for the next generation is not, learn the basics, practice it, work hard at it and you will succeed, it has become get what you can, cheat, get by with as little work as possible and take any substance you can to enhance your lifestyle. And as role models, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, A-Rod and on and on. Is this really what we want to be teaching our children? Sadly, the answer has become...yes. My father never accepted one handout in his life, in fact it was preached to me, it was one of the worst sins one could commit. I have to tell you growing up, we were poor. We didn't know it at the time, or as least as kids we didn't think we were. We were just like everyone else in our little community. Dad's philosophy was, "if you're down and out you just need to dig a little deeper, ie. work a little harder to get out." Bob Gibson never gave in when times were tough, neither did Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Jackie Robinson etal, and you think they didn't go through some tough times.

It has been said that a son always wants his father's approval and unfortunately in a lot of cases it's the last words he ever hears from his father, true also in my case. But I can't help but wonder if Bobby Bonds, who did it the right way, had he lived long enough and had seen all that came down with his son, would have have told him, "I'm proud of what you did." Guess we'll never know, but will your son look your grandson in the eye when the end is near and say "I'm so proud of what you have done with your life, you did it the right way."

Something to think about.

BTW, this is just my opinion. Not trying to start any controversy or name calling etc., just an opinion.
_________________________














Top
#2013000 - 11/29/12 04:07 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: trex]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Two of the best posts I've seen on the board. What's worst about what all of them did was tarnish the clean ball players that probably were hall of famers but who's careers look less then based off of their cheating. My favorite ball player from that whole era was Maddux. Was never a huge Griffey fan but my respect for him rapidly grew as his career had a normal progression. He'd be number two during that time for me.
Top
#2013001 - 11/29/12 04:38 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
FYS
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 1665
Loc: Michigan - The Spartan State

Offline
 Originally Posted By: 33rdStreet
Two of the best posts I've seen on the board. What's worst about what all of them did was tarnish the clean ball players that probably were hall of famers but who's careers look less then based off of their cheating. My favorite ball player from that whole era was Maddux. Was never a huge Griffey fan but my respect for him rapidly grew as his career had a normal progression. He'd be number two during that time for me.


What about all the speed taken in the 70's and 80's? Not really sure if these guys were any worse than anybody else from any generation. They just happened to have different things available to be tempted.
_________________________
1984 W.S. Champs RC's



Top
#2013002 - 11/29/12 04:39 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: FYS]
FYS
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 1665
Loc: Michigan - The Spartan State

Offline
 Originally Posted By: FYS
 Originally Posted By: 33rdStreet
Two of the best posts I've seen on the board. What's worst about what all of them did was tarnish the clean ball players that probably were hall of famers but who's careers look less then based off of their cheating. My favorite ball player from that whole era was Maddux. Was never a huge Griffey fan but my respect for him rapidly grew as his career had a normal progression. He'd be number two during that time for me.


What about all the speed taken in the 70's and 80's? Not really sure if these guys were any worse than anybody else from any generation. They just happened to have different things available to be tempted.


And, the Football steroids era is totally brushed under the rug and nobody cares. The fact people actually care in baseball makes it special.


Edited by FYS (11/29/12 04:40 PM)
_________________________
1984 W.S. Champs RC's



Top
#2013003 - 11/29/12 04:48 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: FYS]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
I read an article on bonds, it was more like a study of how the steroids affected his play. Before the age of 34 he had never had a home run go farther than 450 feet after 34 he had something like 15. That's not like throwing a spitball or taking a pill that makes you alert an jittery. They took hormones to help stay younger longer, recover faster and cheat time. Just differnt to me I guess.
Top
#2013004 - 11/29/12 04:53 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
I agree, of course football is tainted, I know everyone says football is the new pastime but that's because fans never feel about football the way they do about baseball. Baseball has been romanticized, it has a history football can't match. Baseball actually cares about the record book in football they just brush over records like there nothing
Top
#2013035 - 11/30/12 03:22 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
blonski
stranger


Registered: 11/14/12
Posts: 24
Loc: woodstock

Offline
 Originally Posted By: 33rdStreet
Before the age of 34 he had never had a home run go farther than 450 feet after 34 he had something like 15.


thats very interesting, i never knew that

Top
#2013081 - 12/01/12 03:09 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: blonski]
FYS
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 1665
Loc: Michigan - The Spartan State

Offline
On the MLB channel today, they rebroadcasted their top 40 players not in the hall.

Morris - 2
Trammell - 7
Whitaker - 23



Edited by FYS (12/01/12 03:11 PM)
_________________________
1984 W.S. Champs RC's



Top
#2013082 - 12/01/12 03:24 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: FYS]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Morris I agree on, the other two are a stretch. Not that there induction would be a travesty or anything
Top
#2013084 - 12/01/12 04:08 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
FYS
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 1665
Loc: Michigan - The Spartan State

Offline
 Originally Posted By: 33rdStreet
Morris I agree on, the other two are a stretch. Not that there induction would be a travesty or anything


Their top 10 best not in the Hall:

1. Raines
2. Morris
3. McGwire
4. Minoso
5. Bagwell
6. Lee Smith
7. Trammell
8. Ted Simmons
9. Dick Allen
10. Kaat
_________________________
1984 W.S. Champs RC's



Top
#2013085 - 12/01/12 04:12 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: FYS]
Blackie
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 4766
Loc: Southern US

Offline
I cast a vote for Jim Kaat
_________________________
Working on the following sets:
1966 Topps Football
1964-65 Topps Hockey
Upgrades to 65Topps Football

Top
#2013086 - 12/01/12 04:32 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: FYS]
trex
addict


Registered: 01/31/12
Posts: 592

Offline
Dick Allen gets my vote.
_________________________














Top
#2013088 - 12/01/12 05:19 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: trex]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
What about Tony oliva, that guy could hit he just had the misfortune to have his prime smack dab in the pitching era. I mean Yaz 301 wins a batting title lol CMON!
Top
#2013089 - 12/01/12 05:24 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Kaat is kinda like Mussina probably deserving but when judged by the great arms of his time he's in the back. Both of them were great fielders to. Although I'm thinking Moose makes it in around his 5th year or so
Top
#2013094 - 12/01/12 05:32 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
Blackie
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 4766
Loc: Southern US

Offline
Very true Daryl
_________________________
Working on the following sets:
1966 Topps Football
1964-65 Topps Hockey
Upgrades to 65Topps Football

Top
#2013113 - 12/01/12 07:58 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: FYS]
cammb
old hand


Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 890
Loc: Jamesport, NY

Offline
My vote would go to Oliva, Kaat and Richie Allen.
Top
#2013133 - 12/02/12 04:44 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
gaugman
enthusiast


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 295
Loc: new jersey

Offline
 Originally Posted By: 33rdStreet
What about Tony oliva, that guy could hit he just had the misfortune to have his prime smack dab in the pitching era. I mean Yaz 301 wins a batting title lol CMON!


He would have made it if he had never gotten hurt. Great hitter

Top
#2013139 - 12/02/12 06:25 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: FYS]
brewing
journeyman


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 83
Loc: Georgia

Offline
 Originally Posted By: FYS
On the MLB channel today, they rebroadcasted their top 40 players not in the hall.

Morris - 2
Trammell - 7
Whitaker - 23



I put Morris behind them. He gets too much credit for 1991 WS, take a look at his other WS performances. Also most wins in the 80's is over rated due to pitching on the winningest team of the 80's and the extreme lack of quality pitchers that pitched from 1980-1989. Just within Tiger pitchers alone, I'd choose Lolich over Morris.

Top
#2013141 - 12/02/12 06:26 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: cammb]
brewing
journeyman


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 83
Loc: Georgia

Offline
 Originally Posted By: cammb
My vote would go to Oliva, Kaat and Richie Allen.


Olivia and Allen yes. I'm not sure about Kaat. What about Tommy John?

Top
#2013143 - 12/02/12 07:10 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: brewing]
gaugman
enthusiast


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 295
Loc: new jersey

Offline
 Quote:
What about Tommy John?


I'm surprised this is the first someone has mentioned him. I personally think all these players listed are very good, but none good enough.
That's not to say some are not as good as players who have already been inducted. I just think some that are in donít belong.

I'll give you a player, a 2nd basemen, who belongs ahead of Mazeroski. Bobby Grich

Players Iíd take out: This ought to tick some people off but this is what makes baseball great, the debate.

Santo, Blyleven, Dawson, Rice, Gossage, Sutter, Winfield, Puckett, Mazeroski, and thatís only since 2001. They are all very good players, but are they all time greats?
Someone might be able to change my mind on one or two. Iím listening

Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame. I wouldnít want my daughter to marry him or have my son grow up to be just like him but he deserves to be in. Yes he gambled, but he did NOT fix a game. I,ve heard good arguements why he shouldn't be allowed in but I lean towards induction.
Just my opinion

Top
#2013144 - 12/02/12 07:16 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: gaugman]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Grinch, looks like youve been reading bill James abstract he loves Grich makes great points about him to. Of your whole list I'd argue only about Puckett. The only real argument I thought Blyleven ever had was his shutout total which is very impressive. I agree completely, the hall could be emptied by at least 20% easily.
Top
#2013145 - 12/02/12 07:27 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
gaugman
enthusiast


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 295
Loc: new jersey

Offline
Actually I heard Grichís name mentioned on the MLB network, a show called Prime 9. I donít remember what number he came in at or if he even made the top nine 2nd basemen all of time. Come to think of it I think he was one of those guys who just missed the cut. Anyway, because I have no life, I looked up his stats/ career and was surprised at what I found out.
Top
#2013146 - 12/02/12 07:31 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: gaugman]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Guess it was me reading the abstract then lol, I think Grich is in the discussion.
Top
#2013147 - 12/02/12 07:32 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Great show by the way
Top
#2013148 - 12/02/12 07:41 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
gaugman
enthusiast


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 295
Loc: new jersey

Offline
 Originally Posted By: 33rdStreet
Great show by the way


Yes it is.
Do you ever watch Clubhouse Confidential? It's on every day so I don't get a chance to watch it but a couple times a week and that's when I remember to DVR it. I copied and pasted the following....

Clubhouse Confidential
With sabermetrics continually at the forefront of baseball conversations, Clubhouse Confidential with Brian Kenny discusses and debates the day's news and moves using modern statistical research and value projection. Segments like "High Heat," "The Showdown" and "The Shredder" welcome differing opinions to reach conclusions in the new age of baseball analytics.

Top
#2013149 - 12/02/12 07:43 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: gaugman]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
I watch shows like that during the offseason only to satisfy my insatiable thirst for baseball otherwise I will fight the sabermetric craze until I'm 6 feet under!!!! Lol
Top
#2013150 - 12/02/12 07:46 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
gaugman
enthusiast


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 295
Loc: new jersey

Offline
 Originally Posted By: 33rdStreet
I watch shows like that during the offseason only to satisfy my insatiable thirst for baseball otherwise I will fight the sabermetric craze until I'm 6 feet under!!!! Lol


LOL. I think it's a losing battle.

Top
#2013151 - 12/02/12 07:48 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: gaugman]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Sadly you are probably right
Top
#2013152 - 12/02/12 08:33 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
FYS
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 1665
Loc: Michigan - The Spartan State

Offline
 Originally Posted By: 33rdStreet
Sadly you are probably right


Some mentioning of Grich and Tommy John, here is the remainder of MLB's list (Top 10 above):

1. Tim Raines
2. Jack Morris
3. Mark McGwire
4. Minnie Minoso
5. Jeff Bagwell
6. Lee Smith
7. Alan Trammell
8. Ted Simmons
9. Dick Allen
10. Jim Kaat
11. Luis Tiant
12. Dale Murphy
13. Ken Boyer
14. Joe Torre
15. Dwight Evans
16. Rafael Palmero
17. Steve Garvey
18. Gil Hodges
19. Don Mattingly
20. Keith Hernandez
21. Edgar Matinez
22. Tommy John
23. Lou Whitaker
24. Larry Walker
25. Will Clark
26. Tony Oliva
27. Dave Parker
28. Ron Guidry
29. Maury Wills
30. Buck O'Neill
31. Albert Belle
32. Dave Concepcion
33. Juan Gonzalez
34. Jimmy Wynn
35. Bill Freehan (Another Tiger - entire career with Tigers)
36. Bobby Grich
37. Harold Baines
38. Fred McGriff
39. Mark Grace
40. Roger Maris

They did note that Pete Rose and Joe Jackson were not eligible for this vote.





Edited by FYS (12/02/12 08:35 AM)
_________________________
1984 W.S. Champs RC's



Top
#2013153 - 12/02/12 08:51 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: FYS]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Some great names on that list
Top
#2013156 - 12/02/12 10:03 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
brewing
journeyman


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 83
Loc: Georgia

Offline
Al Oliver
2700+ hits
.300 lifetime hitter
Silver slugger winner @3 positions
Led NL in 5 offensive categories in 1982, 1st since Musial.

Top
#2013159 - 12/02/12 10:10 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: brewing]
gaugman
enthusiast


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 295
Loc: new jersey

Offline
 Originally Posted By: brewing
Al Oliver
2700+ hits
.300 lifetime hitter
Silver slugger winner @3 positions
Led NL in 5 offensive categories in 1982, 1st since Musial.


Good choice!

Top
#2013161 - 12/02/12 10:15 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: gaugman]
gaugman
enthusiast


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 295
Loc: new jersey

Offline
Tiant might be the best pitcher on that list and I don't think he belongs.

McGwire
Bagwell
Palmero
Walker
Gonzalez
I think these 5 have all been tainted

Top
#2013163 - 12/02/12 10:21 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: gaugman]
33rdStreet
addict


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 432
Loc: NC

Offline
Seeing who get in from the last 20 years is gonna be interesting to say the least
Top
Page all of 8 12345>Last »


Moderator:  EARLSWORLD 
Hop to:
Who's Online
0 registered and 6 anonymous users online.
Newest Members
jklmno253672, hijklm176309, defghi521014, klmnop450123, abcdef863349
1966 Registered Users

Generated in 0.043 seconds in which 0.002 seconds were spent on a total of 14 queries. Zlib compression disabled.