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#2012705 - 11/20/12 09:56 AM What quality of a card is most important to you?
33rdStreet
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I ask this question because I think the two major companies (SGC/PSA) look at certain qualties of our cards differntly. This is just my opinion and I know its been discussed on here before but so what right?

My personal pet peeve on my cards is the centering, its the one quality I cant get past. I recently crossed two high dollar cards (for me) from SGC to PSA (I know I know) but I have all of my 55 and 56 cards in PSA holders and decided to keep it that way. I sent two nicely centered 55's, an Aaron and a Berra. They both came back higher, the Aaron a 7.5 and the Berra an 8. I have a 55 Williams SGC 86 thats slightly off Left to right but strong everywhere else. I am fairly certain it would come back a 7 if I sent it to cross. So I have decided to just wait and look for a strong Williams card in a PSA and keep the other one to. Long story short I think they (SGC/PSA) look at centering differntly when considering a grade.

My list goes this way
Centering
Corners
Surface/focus/gloss
Edges

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#2012707 - 11/20/12 12:52 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: 33rdStreet]
brick
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I do agree SGC is more forgiving of poorly centered cards. Other than that they do a pretty good job grading cards.
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#2012708 - 11/20/12 12:57 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: brick]
bbo
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I've been collecting graded cards since 1999. SGC used to be more lenient on centering, but 2-3 years ago, following a relentless hammering from collectors, SGC tightened up and IMO over-corrected on the centering criterion.

Today, I find much more out-of-spec examples in PSA holders than in SGC holders. It's difficult to change opinion, once it has been set. Therefore, many still adhere to the canard stated by brick (above).
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#2012714 - 11/20/12 01:58 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: bbo]
33rdStreet
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I agree, I think they have corrected that issue maybe going a little to far. I would have no problem crossing a well centered card graded recently by SGC. I personally think they are tougher than PSA at this point.
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#2012718 - 11/20/12 02:23 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: 33rdStreet]
CTROOP11
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I think way too far on centering....check my new hockey registered sets....
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#2012728 - 11/20/12 02:50 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: 33rdStreet]
trex
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Looking at older SGC cards I have bough over the last couple of years and comparing them with what I've submitted the last year or so, they have definitely tightened up on centering.

To answer your original question, centering, this from a corner convert. Although I still shudder when I see less than razor sharp corners. To me the card was born with centering, good or bad, cornering, or I should say, bad cornering has to do with mishandling the card, in most cases.
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#2012730 - 11/20/12 03:07 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: trex]
CTROOP11
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I agree , a card that is pack fresh and 10% off center should be higher valued than a card handled and worn. My pet peeve.
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#2012731 - 11/20/12 03:13 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: CTROOP11]
33rdStreet
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Corners is my number two, I just see the centering first. 10% of centered is fine Even 60/40 go further and razor sharp corners only go so far for me. See your point about the handling though
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#2012738 - 11/20/12 07:42 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: 33rdStreet]
bbo
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I like my cards just the way I like my women. A little off-centered is OK, as long as they don't show a lot of wear, handling and abuse.
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#2012739 - 11/20/12 09:38 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: bbo]
red_elephant
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All of them

wouldn't a blurry card stand out asap ?
centering is the next big thing or me
then I always scan the corners
followed by the edges
rotate the card, checking the surface
then flip to the back, looking for stains & centering

this isnt just me
it's many

and i think grading should be based on a 6 point criteria

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#2012741 - 11/21/12 04:26 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: bbo]
gaugman
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 Originally Posted By: bbo
I've been collecting graded cards since 1999. SGC used to be more lenient on centering, but 2-3 years ago, following a relentless hammering from collectors, SGC tightened up and IMO over-corrected on the centering criterion.

Today, I find much more out-of-spec examples in PSA holders than in SGC holders. It's difficult to change opinion, once it has been set. Therefore, many still adhere to the canard stated by brick (above).


I agree

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#2012787 - 11/22/12 11:47 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: gaugman]
BigRedOne
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Centering. I won't even bother with the other aspects of the card if it doesn't have eye appealing centering first.


John
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#2012806 - 11/23/12 01:58 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: BigRedOne]
CTROOP11
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 Originally Posted By: BigRedOne
Centering. I won't even bother with the other aspects of the card if it doesn't have eye appealing centering first.


John



That's such bs,you going to throw out a 90/10 Mantle that looks pack fresh? Centering is important for grading purposes ,it's not art to put framed in the living room with a big white strip on one side. You going to put a damaged painting on the wall with bad corners ? NOT! I've graded big rookies with off centering and perfect corners,edges and color.
Cards come out of packs off centered, not manhandled and roughed up.
My pet peeve centering is way over valued.
My rant for today.
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#2012815 - 11/23/12 03:27 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: CTROOP11]
bbo
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+1 (although 90/10 is pretty extreme and butt ugly for a Mantle)
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#2012840 - 11/23/12 06:50 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: bbo]
aconte
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I am in the minority here I think as well. I like the looks of
a pack fresh card and will tolerate some off center qualities
if I can get sharp corners, edges, and clean image.

Also, like bbo, don't want 90/10 or something like that either.
Then I would just keep looking.

aconte
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#2012842 - 11/23/12 11:12 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: aconte]
Mintacular
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1. Eye appeal. Good color, focus/image, pack-freshness.

2. Surface, no creases (except pre-war), stains, paper loss, or major print defects or o/focus.

3. Then I go to corners, a little even wear is fine but no ugly "ding" or overall sense of worness or handling.

4. Next I go to centering, with more tolerance for t/b being off. L/R I prefer to be be 70/30 or better unless the card has great overall qualities (see above). Of course minimal or no tilt.

5. Edges, no major dings, bonus for natural rough cut.

6. Last, check the back for no major issues.

As for the centering snobs, I guess I'm still on the fence as I originally went for corners over centering but have now erred the other direction. That said, still love a few of my o/c cards:






Also, let's face it. Some of these preferences are influenced by budget...The Maris cost me $200 (+ grading fee) and the same card in psa 8 or 9 that is centered I'm sure would have cost me x5 x10 that cost


Edited by Mintacular (11/23/12 11:37 PM)
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#2012843 - 11/24/12 02:39 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: Mintacular]
aconte
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I like that Maris especially compared to most ex
graded ones. The color is very nice and it looks
like it came right out of a pack to that holder.

Nice pickup!

aconte
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#2012844 - 11/24/12 04:05 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: aconte]
bbo
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1950 Ted Williams off center
I haven't measured it, but I'd eyeball this to be about 20/80 s/s and 75/25 to 80/20 t/b.

This is a good example for me, although I would grade it a 6 or 6.5. The card is sharp around the edges and corners. The centering is off, but it's not the centering that ruins it for me. It's the focus/register, maybe a double strike. It's so out of focus that you can hardly tell it's Ted. Had the focus been better, this is the kind of card I'd own, in spite of the centering.

I know what BigRedOne is talking about though. If I was building a set of 1950 Bowman, and all the commons were centered, I'd pass on this card for the o/c even if it was focused. But as a stand-alone card, I'd buy the Ted with better focus and same centering.
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#2012847 - 11/24/12 05:52 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: bbo]
goldenhawk
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U better be very careful when ur dealing with carterscards2006.Dont ever trust him.
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#2012848 - 11/24/12 07:56 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: goldenhawk]
bbo
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Tell me more. I've never bid on anything of theirs, let alone win.
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#2012880 - 11/25/12 12:31 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: CTROOP11]
BigRedOne
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 Originally Posted By: CTROOP11
 Originally Posted By: BigRedOne
Centering. I won't even bother with the other aspects of the card if it doesn't have eye appealing centering first.


John



That's such bs,you going to throw out a 90/10 Mantle that looks pack fresh? Centering is important for grading purposes ,it's not art to put framed in the living room with a big white strip on one side. You going to put a damaged painting on the wall with bad corners ? NOT! I've graded big rookies with off centering and perfect corners,edges and color.
Cards come out of packs off centered, not manhandled and roughed up.
My pet peeve centering is way over valued.
My rant for today.



Take a chill pill bud. I don't do baseball and I don't do o/c cards, Mantle or not. so yeah, right, Im going to throw the o/c Mantle in the trash rather than sell it to get other centered cards I want.


Paintings? I do have a John Wayne painting missing a corner(dog ate it) Still displays well on the wall. Luckily its pretty well centered. Don't know what this has to do with baseball cards, but since you asked.

Cards are indeed works of art to be displayed.
In fact many advanced collectors spend lots of money on custom made wall displays to do just that.

I don't give a rats ass what kind of cards and "big Rookies" you've graded, thankfully not mine. If your fine with o/c cards thats your business and Im all for what makes you happy.
But don't shoot your mouth off about what kind of cards I prefer. Thats my business, NOT YOURS.

Please send me your sharp centered cards and I will send you back some REALLY, REALLY nice 90/10 cards that Im sure you will be happy with.

"Centering is important for grading purposes"
"Centering is way over valued"
Now thats funny! LOL

John



Edited by BigRedOne (11/25/12 12:40 AM)
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#2012938 - 11/27/12 12:31 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: BigRedOne]
DHack
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Since I collect lower grade pre-war it's mainly about centering for me. I know going in the corners are not going to be very sharp. Then I would have to say focus/registration is a close second. I really try to avoid creases. Wrinkles that are located at the corners are more tolerable. At the end of the day though it's really overall eye appeal. A card could be pefectly centered but out of focus and I will pass. Or a card could have nice focus but off center and I will pass. I take each card and decide on its own particular merits and go from there.
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#2012939 - 11/27/12 12:41 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: DHack]
SMtJoy
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Im in the same boat as Dhack in pre ww2 but I prolly judge registration first, then centering the rest not an issue but the overall look is very important. Pretty much all my cards have corner/edge wear and wrinkles so I am ok with some of that, I do avoid creases/wrinkles across the face.
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#2012940 - 11/27/12 09:20 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: SMtJoy]
Mintacular
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 Quote:
I know going in the corners are not going to be very sharp.


You sure about this?




















Edited by Mintacular (11/27/12 09:28 PM)
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#2012941 - 11/27/12 09:58 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: Mintacular]
SMtJoy
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Those are some awesome looking cards (grats) and I look for the same kind but as you know they are not easy to find, esp not cards you are looking for, easy to wait on the next nice looking T206 20-40 regardless of player but a different story to find a player you need in a set you are working on.
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#2012944 - 11/27/12 10:42 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: 33rdStreet]
DHack
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OK, so there are exceptions to the rule.



Edited by DHack (11/27/12 10:43 PM)

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#2012945 - 11/28/12 02:53 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: DHack]
Toledo Mudhen
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That's the really hard part - finding a card you have needed for a long time - BUT it is OC. Therein lies the dilemma. Will I see another one for a while? Do I pull the trigger on the OC?
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#2012947 - 11/28/12 06:43 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: Toledo Mudhen]
SMtJoy
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Depends how long I have been waiting and looking at things like pop reports to get an idea when another will show up. On the cards I have been waiting 2+ years for I usually just buy the OC card and hope to upgrade later down the road, I have a bunch of long time fillers in my collection.

Here are a few of my sharp low grade cards )




Edited by SMtJoy (11/28/12 06:45 AM)

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#2012949 - 11/28/12 06:54 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: SMtJoy]
33rdStreet
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That Cobb is awesome!
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#2012950 - 11/28/12 07:18 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: SMtJoy]
bbo
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Matty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Best Giants pitcher. Ever.
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#2012954 - 11/28/12 08:07 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: bbo]
gaugman
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 Originally Posted By: bbo
Matty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Best Giants pitcher. Ever.


If you believe in the Payton Manning rule; championships won for quarterbacks or in the case of baseball, championship game won lose record for pitchers. Mathewson is 5-5. After going 3-0 in 1905, went 2-5 the next 3 seasons he pitched in the World Series losing the deciding game I believe twice.


Just messing with you bbo. I too love Matty. His ERA was 0.97 in World Series play and was the bad luck loser in more than one of those games. He was on the mound for "Snodgrass's Muff".

I know this only because last night I watched
the 1920's of Ken Burns baseball documentary.
Love watching it. Kinda makes me want to start collecting pre war.

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#2012958 - 11/28/12 09:04 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: gaugman]
bbo
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Didn't say he was the best pitcher ever. I said he was the best Giants pitcher ever. If you can find me a better one, I will stand corrected.

Huge difference in football QB and baseball pitcher. QBs control the offense, pitchers do not. QBs play every game. (Starting) pitchers every 3rd-5th game.

Oh, and it's the Tom Brady rule, not the Peyton Manning rule. \:\)
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#2012959 - 11/28/12 09:49 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: bbo]
33rdStreet
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Think the 2nd best Giant pitcher would have to be Juan Marichal and he has always been completly under-rated. He just happened to run up against Koufax and Gibson during there primes.
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#2012962 - 11/28/12 11:28 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: 33rdStreet]
bbo
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Tim Keefe was pretty good, but only played about half his career with the Giants. Carl Hubbell wasn't bad either. In the 1934 All-Star game, Hubbell set a record by striking out five future Hall of Famers in succession: Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, Al Simmons and Joe Cronin.

I liked Marichal until he took a bat to the head of John Roseboro. I'd have to put Hubbell ahead of Marichal. Not sure about Keefe. Marichal and he are 3/4 or 4/3.
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#2012963 - 11/28/12 11:38 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: bbo]
33rdStreet
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Dont know why Hubbell escaped my mind, he did pitch during an offensive era to while Marichal threw in the 60's. I know Keefe has the statistics but he pitched in a completly differnt time. Think you could argue for Hubbell or Marichal as number 2.
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#2012964 - 11/28/12 12:00 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: 33rdStreet]
gaugman
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Oh I agree Matty is the best Giants pitcher ever.

Since you brought it up; there is a huge difference between quarterback and a pitcher.
A pitcher controls only the defensive side of the game and therefore in most cases the opposing team can not score unless the pitcher gives up the runs. So you can say he more or less controls his own destiny. (unless you're Harvey Haddix)
I agree a pitcher who takes the mound every 3-5 days can only control the games he starts but you do get an idea of whether or not he comes up big in the big game which is basically what the “Tom Brady rule” is.
Unfortunately Christy Mathewson more often than not didn’t pitch well enough to win in the big game and when he did, his team won.

Do you think a pitcher has more control over a game than a quarterback?

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#2012968 - 11/28/12 01:03 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: gaugman]
bbo
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No. A QB can control both his offense and the other team's defense (keep them from scoring with conservative play, stay on the field with long, time-consuming drives, ala Brady and Schaub), and to a certain extent control his own defense by keeping them rested on the bench. A pitcher has virtually no control over his offense (in the AL) and only Don Drysdale-types and Mike Hampton-types in the NL exert any control over offense.

Still, we're talking about two very different games here. How fun would it be if baseball were a timed sport and football only gave 27 snaps to each side and the game was over? (Not as fun, IMO.)
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#2012988 - 11/29/12 05:12 AM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: gaugman]
gaugman
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 Originally Posted By: gaugman
Do you think a pitcher has more control over a game than a quarterback?


What if the question read, who has more control over the outcome of a game, a quarterback or a starting pitcher?

I'm going with a starting pitcher.

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#2013036 - 11/30/12 03:28 PM Re: What quality of a card is most important to you? [Re: gaugman]
blonski
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 Originally Posted By: gaugman
 Originally Posted By: gaugman
Do you think a pitcher has more control over a game than a quarterback?


What if the question read, who has more control over the outcome of a game, a quarterback or a starting pitcher?

I'm going with a starting pitcher.


thats a very interesting question. there are good arguments for both sides

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