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#2012977 - 11/28/12 06:33 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: bbo]
cammb
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Registered: 12/30/10
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Forgot about Drysdale.
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#2012978 - 11/28/12 08:43 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: bbo]
SMtJoy
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I sure hope not.
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#2012981 - 11/29/12 02:47 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: SMtJoy]
Toledo Mudhen
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OK let me poke at the hornet's nest..... I say both Rose & Bonds need to be in.
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#2012982 - 11/29/12 03:18 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: Toledo Mudhen]
bbo
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OTOH, I say keep 'em both out. It used to be the Hall of Fame, then it became the Hall of Pretty Good, but it should never be the Hall of Shame.
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#2012986 - 11/29/12 05:01 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: bbo]
gaugman
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There are plenty of people already in the Hall that belong in the Shame Wing. I've already had this discussion with bbo about Rose and I disagree with him. As far as Bonds, I don't think him being an a**hole should keep him out. He was one hell of a ball player. I'm still on the fence about him only because I agree with those who feel he was a Hall of Famer before he did PED's
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#2012990 - 11/29/12 05:19 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
33rdStreet
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Joe Jackson was a HOF'er before he threw the series to....I think Bonds should be on the outside looking in. Do I believe he was a HOF talent, yes I do, before the steriod's, yes but it was so blatant on his part so obvious that he cheated and continued to do so.
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#2012993 - 11/29/12 06:16 AM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
bbo
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Look, this is not all that difficult. Baseball as a sport is full of great players, but the Hall of Fame is reserved for the best of the best who play by the rules. To my knowledge, there is no morals clause regarding outside activities and personal biases for admittance to the baseball HOF. But there were signs in every clubhouse during Rose's association with the game that read, "No gambling," harkening back to the Black Sox Scandal that nearly killed the sport. Rose basically said, "That doesn't apply to me; I'm bigger than the game."

Same for PED. Bonds, Clemens, etal said the same as Rose while thumbing their noses at the fans.

Sadly, our culture compromises on what is wrong or else we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's nothing less than the Dumbing Down of America, Slouching Towards Gommorah and Failure of Standards.

I don't get a vote; therefore, neither Rose nor Bonds will get any help from me. Whether or not they get help from 75% of the sportswriters is of no concern to me.

But if they get in despite cheating the game, every voter is telling his kid and any other kid, "break the rules of the game and it doesn't matter."
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#2012998 - 11/29/12 01:38 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: bbo]
trex
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Very well said Mike, very well said, and IMO spot on, on all points. As much is I loved watching Pete Rose play the game and there is no doubt whatsoever he was one of the absolute greats to play the game, I cannot get past his disregard for the integrity of the game he loved so much.

Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, A-Rod, when he becomes eligible, the arrogance alone of this group is enough for me to say never. Probably a good thing I don't have a vote. Clemens, I dunno, maybe the jury is still out on him, for me. Maybe because he's from Texas, lol.

Now there are those that say, it's been done all along. I really can't prove otherwise, but it's really hard for me to believe that "Stan the Man", "Say Hey", "Hammerin Hank", Roberto, "The Splinter", "Gibby", "Spahnnie", "Sandy" to name a few took anything to enhance their performance. I'll bet if anyone bothered to look, their weight, or bulk never varied that much through their entire career. Now "the Mick", well I never knew alcohol enhanced performance, probably no telling where he would be in the record books today had he not have bent that elbow so much. But who knows.

Sadly, BBO is right, we are witnessing the "Dumbing Down of America" or "America, Home of Entitlements." The role model for the next generation is not, learn the basics, practice it, work hard at it and you will succeed, it has become get what you can, cheat, get by with as little work as possible and take any substance you can to enhance your lifestyle. And as role models, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, A-Rod and on and on. Is this really what we want to be teaching our children? Sadly, the answer has become...yes. My father never accepted one handout in his life, in fact it was preached to me, it was one of the worst sins one could commit. I have to tell you growing up, we were poor. We didn't know it at the time, or as least as kids we didn't think we were. We were just like everyone else in our little community. Dad's philosophy was, "if you're down and out you just need to dig a little deeper, ie. work a little harder to get out." Bob Gibson never gave in when times were tough, neither did Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Jackie Robinson etal, and you think they didn't go through some tough times.

It has been said that a son always wants his father's approval and unfortunately in a lot of cases it's the last words he ever hears from his father, true also in my case. But I can't help but wonder if Bobby Bonds, who did it the right way, had he lived long enough and had seen all that came down with his son, would have have told him, "I'm proud of what you did." Guess we'll never know, but will your son look your grandson in the eye when the end is near and say "I'm so proud of what you have done with your life, you did it the right way."

Something to think about.

BTW, this is just my opinion. Not trying to start any controversy or name calling etc., just an opinion.
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#2013000 - 11/29/12 04:07 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: trex]
33rdStreet
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Two of the best posts I've seen on the board. What's worst about what all of them did was tarnish the clean ball players that probably were hall of famers but who's careers look less then based off of their cheating. My favorite ball player from that whole era was Maddux. Was never a huge Griffey fan but my respect for him rapidly grew as his career had a normal progression. He'd be number two during that time for me.
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#2013001 - 11/29/12 04:38 PM Re: Hall of Fame [Re: 33rdStreet]
FYS
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 05/21/04
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 Originally Posted By: 33rdStreet
Two of the best posts I've seen on the board. What's worst about what all of them did was tarnish the clean ball players that probably were hall of famers but who's careers look less then based off of their cheating. My favorite ball player from that whole era was Maddux. Was never a huge Griffey fan but my respect for him rapidly grew as his career had a normal progression. He'd be number two during that time for me.


What about all the speed taken in the 70's and 80's? Not really sure if these guys were any worse than anybody else from any generation. They just happened to have different things available to be tempted.
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