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#2015265 - 01/26/13 07:38 PM Question about How Cards are Graded
K-Nole
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Registered: 12/30/12
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New to this whole "Graded" thing, so please excuse me...

Tonight I went to "Vintage Stock". I dont know if they have these in your neighborhood, but this place is mostly used video games, Movies, CD's and that sort of thing. However this on also has sports cards and as sad as it sounds, they have better stuff then ANY card shops in my town.

Anyways, I picked up a 1961 Topps George Blanda. Now my question is this, this card is absolutely GREAT!! the only two issues are the bottom left corner is a VERY tiny bit dinged, almost un noticeable unless you look hard and are "looking" for a problem. Even on the back, in the more noticeable blue background, it is not noticeable.
OK, but the other problem is this, the black outline on the front, on the left side, it has a printing "error" where the ink fades, instead of a sharp Straight line. My question is, does this count off on the grading?
I know stupid question, but the reason I ask is that I looked on Ebay and I see this card in way worse shape, and they rate them "NM", but this is the print, not corners/edges.

BTW, I bought a 77 Largent Rookie in ABSOLUTE MINT!! Not graded, but this card is AWESOME!!! Corners are perfect, edges are great, and has PERFECT Centering.

Here is the thing thou, I think somebody was switching card holders because I got BOTH cards for $1 each. For a 1961 George Blanda & 1977 Steve Largent, both gradable, my total was $2.18!!

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#2015266 - 01/26/13 07:50 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: K-Nole]
Blackie
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Holy gym socks batman!!! Brother you got a great deal on those cards!
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Working on the following sets:
1966 Topps Football
1964-65 Topps Hockey
Upgrades to 65Topps Football

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#2015267 - 01/26/13 07:50 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: Blackie]
Blackie
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Lets see some pics
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Working on the following sets:
1966 Topps Football
1964-65 Topps Hockey
Upgrades to 65Topps Football

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#2015268 - 01/26/13 07:51 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: K-Nole]
FYS
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 05/21/04
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 Originally Posted By: K-Nole
New to this whole "Graded" thing, so please excuse me...

Tonight I went to "Vintage Stock". I dont know if they have these in your neighborhood, but this place is mostly used video games, Movies, CD's and that sort of thing. However this on also has sports cards and as sad as it sounds, they have better stuff then ANY card shops in my town.

Anyways, I picked up a 1961 Topps George Blanda. Now my question is this, this card is absolutely GREAT!! the only two issues are the bottom left corner is a VERY tiny bit dinged, almost un noticeable unless you look hard and are "looking" for a problem. Even on the back, in the more noticeable blue background, it is not noticeable.
OK, but the other problem is this, the black outline on the front, on the left side, it has a printing "error" where the ink fades, instead of a sharp Straight line. My question is, does this count off on the grading?
I know stupid question, but the reason I ask is that I looked on Ebay and I see this card in way worse shape, and they rate them "NM", but this is the print, not corners/edges.

BTW, I bought a 77 Largent Rookie in ABSOLUTE MINT!! Not graded, but this card is AWESOME!!! Corners are perfect, edges are great, and has PERFECT Centering.

Here is the thing thou, I think somebody was switching card holders because I got BOTH cards for $1 each. For a 1961 George Blanda & 1977 Steve Largent, both gradable, my total was $2.18!!


Scan and post them to get feedback. BBO has a sharp grading eye with scans. Personally, I have not been hammered that hard for minor line fading.
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#2015269 - 01/26/13 07:59 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: FYS]
K-Nole
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How do I scan? Sorry, I am computer idiot!
I have a copy machine at work, can I just put them on that and scan it to my desktop?

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#2015272 - 01/27/13 12:24 AM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: K-Nole]
BigRedOne
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K-Nole, K-Nole, K-Nole..... A scanner is really the only way to go. A quaility scanner can be had for 50-60 bucks these days.

As for the grading questions, Even with all the inconsistancies involved with these grading companies, its safe to assume they will down grade noticable print flaws depending on the severity.

Its hard enough sometimes assessing a card from a good quality scan and virtually impossible from just a description.

There are hoards of idiots with cards on ebay that should not even be allowed the sell. Evereything is NM or Mint to them.

With Raw cards on ebay my rule of thumb is that they are ALL overgraded by at least one grade.
There are a few respectable sellers on ebay I'll deal with but most are morons out to try and make a quick buck.

This is also why the Third Party Graders thrive in the hobby. Even with all their faults and inconsistancies at least you know kind of where you stand with the quailty of stated grades.

Another thing is What I like to call "The 1st Person Effect" This is the failure of most people's ability to stay totally objective when grading a card, simply because they own it. They often see it through "Rose Colored Glasses". I think we have all fallen prey to it at least once.

Now..... The 77 Steve Largent Rookie? That card is Notorious for its difficult centering. My first thought when I see perfect centering on a Raw Steve Largent Rookie... Is it Trimmed?

Second, Are you positive your not fallening prey to the "1stPerson Effect" ?

Many who have never subbmitted cards for grading often become surprised and disappointed uopn recieving lower grades than they initially thought they would recieve. I don't think they realized the cards would be scrutinized under magification.

Again, Without a quality scan its really not possible to even have a chance at making objective call on the card.

Which brings me back to point #1 A scanner is really the only way to go! LOL

For $1 it's already an Win-Win for ya.

John


Edited by BigRedOne (01/27/13 02:01 PM)
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#2015279 - 01/27/13 05:47 AM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: BigRedOne]
K-Nole
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I know Right!!!!

I buy lots off EBAY to for my sets and some are rated EX-NM. Out of the 6-7 "EX-NM" lots, there has only been one (1976 Topps Football) that the entire lot was NM IMO.

Since I am too cheap to buy a printer (I would rather buy cards with my money right now :-) ), I will scan them at work, then see if I can put them on here.

AFA the Largent, you hit the nail on the head, the one I already had, and in my set, is off center.

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#2015286 - 01/27/13 07:02 AM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: K-Nole]
KRB
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For that price...buy buy buy EVERYTHING in the store!!!!!

Find me some Mantles for 1 buck....you can be my friend.
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ROOKIE CARDS baseball & football.




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#2015292 - 01/27/13 10:27 AM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: KRB]
K-Nole
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Somebody HAD to of switched holders w/price tags, and if I had my son with me at the time, I would have told the Mgr.

But, I was by myself and had that "WHAT!!! Well, thats what it marked" view.

I actually feel kinda bad.

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#2015293 - 01/27/13 10:39 AM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: K-Nole]
KRB
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if i didnt collect cards, or even know football..I wouldnt known who Largent or Blanda was....
This saying that there are some people that just dont know football.

People are more like remembering Namath, Montana, Elway and stuff
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also looking for 52 #311 A variation mantle
ROOKIE CARDS baseball & football.




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#2015318 - 01/28/13 03:58 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: KRB]
K-Nole
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Got a scanner, scanned the photo to my desktop, now how do I post it here on this board?
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#2015319 - 01/28/13 04:02 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: K-Nole]
Blackie
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I upload to photobucket.com Its fast, free and simple. Just login to http://www.photobucket.com and upload your scans. Then click and past the img code.......paste it to your post and your good to hook brother.
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Working on the following sets:
1966 Topps Football
1964-65 Topps Hockey
Upgrades to 65Topps Football

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#2015320 - 01/28/13 04:03 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: Blackie]
Blackie
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you may have to register if you aint been on it before but its quick and simple. This will allow you to save your scans.....etc. You can build different folders for your stuff too. Im still at work so have to be fast but hope this helps....

rob
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Working on the following sets:
1966 Topps Football
1964-65 Topps Hockey
Upgrades to 65Topps Football

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#2015321 - 01/28/13 04:23 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: K-Nole]
trex
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 Originally Posted By: K-Nole
Got a scanner, scanned the photo to my desktop, now how do I post it here on this board?


K-nole, I wouldn't scan them to my desktop, you'll in short order have it totally cluttered up. Save them into your pictures folder. Make sure your scanner software setting's are correct. PM me if you want to know what correct is, depending on your scanner. Then photo edit them so they show well on your post. Then follow Blackie's instructions on posting.
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#2015322 - 01/28/13 05:29 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: Blackie]
K-Nole
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#2015324 - 01/28/13 05:30 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: K-Nole]
Blackie
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Sweet Blanda!!!!!
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Working on the following sets:
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#2015325 - 01/28/13 05:30 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: K-Nole]
K-Nole
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Kinda small, how can I zoom? Is that something I need to do on the scanner?

Anyways, here is the Blanda. See the black ink along the left side, how it fades?

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#2015326 - 01/28/13 05:32 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: K-Nole]
Blackie
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Here is what ya do.........crop the pic after ya scan it. It will enlarge the photo. You can also do this edit on photobucket but i do mine from the computer.
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Working on the following sets:
1966 Topps Football
1964-65 Topps Hockey
Upgrades to 65Topps Football

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#2015327 - 01/28/13 05:33 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: Blackie]
Blackie
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I will show ya with your card.....give me a second.
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Upgrades to 65Topps Football

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#2015328 - 01/28/13 05:35 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: Blackie]
Blackie
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well it didn't work.....i think it has to come from your computer........
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Working on the following sets:
1966 Topps Football
1964-65 Topps Hockey
Upgrades to 65Topps Football

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#2015329 - 01/28/13 05:46 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: Blackie]
K-Nole
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Registered: 12/30/12
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How's this. my E-102 Otto Knabe. I know, not great, but I bought it back in the 80's when I was a teen and still one of my favorites.

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#2015330 - 01/28/13 05:49 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: Blackie]
K-Nole
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THANKS SO MUCH BLACKIE & TREX!!!!!!!!!! I think i got it now!!! Thanks for your patience!!

Hey, i am going to post a scan of the Michael Jordan I asked in an earlier thread if I should send it in. I will post it in that thread. However, I got too thinking. THe entire set is the exact shape as the Jordan, so maybe i should grade the entire set? I think it would probably rate pretty high. See the Jordan scan and let me know.

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#2015331 - 01/28/13 05:55 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: Blackie]
trex
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K-Nole. Here's about the best I can do with your scan. Need to work on your software settings, then photoshop/photoedit it, then go to Photobucket or whatever program you want to use to upload it to the board. This isn't bad, but the scan is way out of focus, nothing I can do with that. That all comes from your scan and the settings.

Play around with it you'll get it.

Here's something close to what it should look like:

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#2015332 - 01/28/13 06:04 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: trex]
Blackie
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Jims the subject matter expert on scanning. He has helped me alot though im not too smart and aint figured most of it out.
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Working on the following sets:
1966 Topps Football
1964-65 Topps Hockey
Upgrades to 65Topps Football

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#2015335 - 01/28/13 06:11 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: Blackie]
K-Nole
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well i have learned a LOT tonight. Also, lloks like when I scan, i need to take the card out of the plastic cause the Jordan scan I did looks "faded" and the "scratch" in the middle, is actually on the penny sleeve, not the card.

Oh well, I think I'll get it.

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#2015341 - 01/28/13 06:40 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: Blackie]
trex
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 Originally Posted By: Blackie
Jims the subject matter expert on scanning. He has helped me alot though im not too smart and aint figured most of it out.


Hahaha. Actually, no. John, "bigredone" is the scanning expert, as well as on other items. No way I can touch his scans. He has something figured out that I haven't yet. But, he's free with advice and that's who I learned from, he's a darn good instructor. And an even better person.
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#2015342 - 01/28/13 06:51 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: trex]
Blackie
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+1 for John!!!
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Working on the following sets:
1966 Topps Football
1964-65 Topps Hockey
Upgrades to 65Topps Football

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#2015349 - 01/28/13 09:20 PM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: Blackie]
SMtJoy
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Thats an awesome Knabe, E102's are a super tough set, that card would look great graded! That's the type of card in my wheelhouse, love low grade presentable vintage!

Nice work on the scans guys, always love to see more cards posted as that's why we are here!

Heres my only E102, very happy to have it-

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#2015352 - 01/29/13 03:55 AM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: SMtJoy]
BigRedOne
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SMTjoy Nice Matthewson! And a nice scan as well! Job well done!


K-Nole

Wow! you didn't waste no time getting a scanner!
May I ask what kind of scanner you got?

You seem to even pick up the scanning process pretty quickly.

Like Jim and Rob said keep playing around to find the settings that work best for you.

I think you will find that being able to scan and post your cards will open up a whole new world of card collecting. It can also become very addicting, but its a lot of fun as well.

Jim, your to kind with your words.

If it helps ya any K-Nole here is what I do. Its really not that hard.

#1 KEEP YOUR SCANNER BED CLEAN. Very Important.

#2 Scan at 300 to 350 DPI (I do 300 its faster)

#3 Open your scan in your scanning software or other Photo editor (Paintshop Pro, Photoshop, etc)
Im using old software from a Cannon Scanner to edit with.

#4 Crop your scanned card.

#5 Click "view actual size" (it should be a pretty big pic. (Very important to be viewing at "actual size")

#6 click "Imagine Size" or "Edit Image Size" and reduce to 400-500 dpi. I usually do 400 If you start getty to much bigger the card becomes to big to see in it's entirity on the message boards.

#7 You can "sharpen" just a bit or play with other settings. Don't over do it trying to adjust color and all that stuff. Usually a light sharpen is all that is needed.

#8 Save your image to a folder in "My Pictures"

#9 Don't forget to "delete" the original scan in order to save hard drive space.

#10 Upload your scan to your Photobucket account.

#11 Post many photos of your cards here on the boards for all to enjoy!


Here is a card I did using the setting described above.


John


Edited by BigRedOne (01/29/13 04:02 AM)
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#2015357 - 01/29/13 05:23 AM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: BigRedOne]
K-Nole
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Registered: 12/30/12
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GREAT! Thanks John!

BTW, I expect those 72's to come in today-Thursday. after that, I will get you my want list of the 72's, to go along with the 70's and the 71 Pearson you have pulled for me.

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#2015358 - 01/29/13 05:24 AM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: SMtJoy]
K-Nole
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Registered: 12/30/12
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Loc: Topeka, Ks

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 Originally Posted By: SMtJoy
Thats an awesome Knabe, E102's are a super tough set, that card would look great graded! That's the type of card in my wheelhouse, love low grade presentable vintage!

Nice work on the scans guys, always love to see more cards posted as that's why we are here!

Heres my only E102, very happy to have it-




Joy, that Matthewson is FREAKING AWSOME!!!!

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#2015359 - 01/29/13 05:25 AM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: K-Nole]
Blackie
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Registered: 12/23/08
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I second that............I love those T-cards..
_________________________
Working on the following sets:
1966 Topps Football
1964-65 Topps Hockey
Upgrades to 65Topps Football

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#2015361 - 01/29/13 05:53 AM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: BigRedOne]
trex
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Registered: 01/31/12
Posts: 592

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 Originally Posted By: BigRedOne
SMTjoy Nice Matthewson! And a nice scan as well! Job well done!


K-Nole

Wow! you didn't waste no time getting a scanner!
May I ask what kind of scanner you got?

You seem to even pick up the scanning process pretty quickly.

Like Jim and Rob said keep playing around to find the settings that work best for you.

I think you will find that being able to scan and post your cards will open up a whole new world of card collecting. It can also become very addicting, but its a lot of fun as well.

Jim, your to kind with your words.

If it helps ya any K-Nole here is what I do. Its really not that hard.

#1 KEEP YOUR SCANNER BED CLEAN. Very Important.

#2 Scan at 300 to 350 DPI (I do 300 its faster)

#3 Open your scan in your scanning software or other Photo editor (Paintshop Pro, Photoshop, etc)
Im using old software from a Cannon Scanner to edit with.

#4 Crop your scanned card.

#5 Click "view actual size" (it should be a pretty big pic. (Very important to be viewing at "actual size")

#6 click "Imagine Size" or "Edit Image Size" and reduce to 400-500 dpi. I usually do 400 If you start getty to much bigger the card becomes to big to see in it's entirity on the message boards.

#7 You can "sharpen" just a bit or play with other settings. Don't over do it trying to adjust color and all that stuff. Usually a light sharpen is all that is needed.

#8 Save your image to a folder in "My Pictures"

#9 Don't forget to "delete" the original scan in order to save hard drive space.

#10 Upload your scan to your Photobucket account.

#11 Post many photos of your cards here on the boards for all to enjoy!


Here is a card I did using the setting described above.


John


K-Nole, there's step by step from the real expert. Probably the most important step to me is number 1, KEEP THE SCANNER BED CLEAN. I clean mine before every scanning session. If I'm doing multiple scans, I clean it between every scan, OCD kicking in. If I'm scanning graded cards I'll dust them off prior to scanning. It's a real distraction to me to have a piece of lint on a scan. I've been known to redo a full scanner bed because of one or two pieces of lint I missed in pre-scan.

I do play around some with the photo editor, but usually come back to just a small amount of sharpening, as John said. Have fun, and yes it can become very addicting.
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#2015362 - 01/29/13 07:14 AM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: trex]
BigRedOne
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Registered: 01/21/08
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There you go K-Nole!

Jim(trex) is pretty modest. Don't let him fool ya,
He is an expert scanner himself and makes another good point that I failed to mention.

Cleaning the Graded card slabs as well before scanning.

Like Jim said, it's fun to play around with the settings but it usually does come back to just a small amount of sharpening.

The area I like working with is Framing and custom borders to really highlight the cards and make them like works of art.

Currently Framing my 72 Sunoco Set.



as well as adding informational text



To even my own cyber graded cards!



I really enjoy scanning and being able to display my cards this way more than any other aspect of the hobby. It really has opened up a whole new way to view one's collection.

John


Edited by BigRedOne (01/29/13 07:17 AM)
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#2015363 - 01/29/13 08:32 AM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: BigRedOne]
K-Nole
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Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 323
Loc: Topeka, Ks

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What I am finding is that, I hate scanners!

BECAUSE THEY SHOW ALL THE FLAWS IN THE CARD I CAN'T SEE WITH THE NAKED EYE :-)

Yes, very addictive. Also, I will have a bottle of Windex setting right beside the scanner.

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#2015365 - 01/29/13 09:38 AM Re: Question about How Cards are Graded [Re: K-Nole]
trex
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Registered: 01/31/12
Posts: 592

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 Originally Posted By: K-Nole
What I am finding is that, I hate scanners!

BECAUSE THEY SHOW ALL THE FLAWS IN THE CARD I CAN'T SEE WITH THE NAKED EYE :-)

Yes, very addictive. Also, I will have a bottle of Windex setting right beside the scanner.


Whoa cowboy. Don't spray your scanner bed. and don't use a paper towel to wipe it down. If you have to clean your scanner bed, very lightly spray a very soft, clean cloth rag. You shouldn't have to do this real often. You will get finger prints/smudges from time to time that will require wiping down. Otherwise, just use these Swiffer dusters for the scanner bed and cards in holders. All you're wanting to do is get the lint/dust off, until like I said you get a lot of finger/thumb smudges. Eventually you figure out how to do a scan without your fingers ever touching the scanner bed.

Here's a couple of more tips. In your scanner software, make sure you're scanning at 48-bit color in addition to 300-350 dpi.
Also try the following settings:

Unsharp Mask...set to high. This will actually sharpen your scan.

Descreening...set to general

Dust Removal...set to medium. If you set it much higher than this the letters on your holder and all will start washing out.

These settings should improve your scan prior to any photo-editing, and in most cases will eliminate the need for much editing other than a small amount of sharpening. Then prepare to have a lot of fun. What John has done to that Lenny Dawson card is the kind of stuff I enjoy doing. And the fun you can have with your scans on different websites, or your own if you have one. The cards tell a story, there's a lot of history there, now you're able to add to that story with your own. It's addictive, but it opens up a whole new realm to your collecting. A heck of a lot of fun too. Yep, they do highlight the flaws though.
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