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#2015498 - 02/06/13 04:28 PM Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm
Blackie
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Registered: 12/23/08
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Seen this card now at over 150 bucks with time left........but just a day ago one hammered out at over 100 dollars less that was just as nice. Funny but I sense some possible shill going on with the low bidder.......

Here are the two....

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=140911637153

the last one that sold..........
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Topps-Bobby...=p2047675.l2557
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#2015499 - 02/06/13 04:28 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: Blackie]
Blackie
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just can't understand how the two cards are well over 100 bucks apart.....
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#2015500 - 02/06/13 04:58 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: Blackie]
bbo
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Maybe the higher auction bidders didn't want a Lionel Carter Collection card on the flip?
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#2015501 - 02/06/13 05:00 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: bbo]
Blackie
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Could be i guess
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#2015502 - 02/06/13 05:03 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: Blackie]
Blackie
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I just find it bat shi$ crazy on the differences in price
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#2015505 - 02/06/13 05:45 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: Blackie]
cammb
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Registered: 12/30/10
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The one for $56 had the auction end prematurely. It states thbat bidding has ended but doesnt say SOLD. The other one is being sold by PWCC and dealer that always gets over book for his cards. IMO
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#2015506 - 02/06/13 05:50 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: cammb]
Blackie
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Very true and good point Tony!
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#2015508 - 02/06/13 06:09 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: Blackie]
trex
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Rob,

I think Tony nailed it. PWCC always gets way over VCP for their cards. Maybe shilling, maybe not, but PWCC, Probstein, and Steve Noveilla always get way over VCP. That's why I don't bother looking at their auctions. If I were a seller, that's who I'd go with, but I'm not and I don't. In fact when I look at VCP I kick out those three to get an accurate, to me anyway, worth of the card, as a buyer. Just my two penny's worth.
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#2015509 - 02/06/13 06:22 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: trex]
Blackie
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Your right Jim. Gotta stop looking at their auctions.
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#2015510 - 02/06/13 06:25 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: cammb]
BigRedOne
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Rob

Your gut feeling about shilling is usually correct.

Big consigners like Probenstein and PWCC are basically parasites on the hobby. They knowingly allow the people who consign the cards to them to shill bid their own cards.

This in turn artificially inflates the price of the card which in turn makes the VCP inaacurate as well.

It is amazing how many suckers are out there willing to pay a "Suckers preminum" to these big consigners who they think are looking out for their best interest, but are really just frauding and shilling them for more money.

From the Million dollar Hornus wagner PSA Fraud to the Big Consigner bid shilling the hobby has been under attack from the inside, by the very people many look to to protect its integrity.

Its the same mentality many of the PSA registry "label collectors" have, where they will give a preminum for a PSA label that makes their registry set look better reguardless of the actual condition of the card.

There are a lot of people with more money than brains in the hobby and These big consigners and many who consign cards to them are more than willing to take full advantage of it.

The old saying still holds true today, There's a sucker born every minute.
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#2015511 - 02/06/13 06:28 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: BigRedOne]
Blackie
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Very well said John. I was reading a bit on the CU board earlier bout probestein and the superbowl opus that has relisted a few times. Rick never responded back and im sure we know why.

Sad to see this stuff in the hobby.
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#2015517 - 02/06/13 06:37 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: BigRedOne]
trex
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Rob,

John is absolutely spot-on as usual. Not only do these guy's shill their own auctions for personal gain, they do it to drive up VCP. Which is why I always discount their prices from VCP to get an accurate price of the card. Parasites is actually too nice a word for these jerks.
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#2015519 - 02/06/13 06:41 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: trex]
Blackie
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Its pathetic thats for sure. Guys like this make the hobby all about the money. Probably why we have and are loosing so many young collectors. It should be about the fun, beauty of the cards, history of the sport and a proud representation of the freedoms this Country is blessed with. Just my opinion.
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#2015521 - 02/06/13 06:46 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: Blackie]
trex
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Yeah, it should be, but welcome to the ME generation.
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#2015523 - 02/06/13 06:49 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: trex]
Blackie
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Uggh... Yeah i see that
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#2015529 - 02/06/13 07:36 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: Blackie]
BigRedOne
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Guys, Guys!

There are still, plenty of "up right" collectors in this great hobby and I have absolutely no problem with someone making a profit or what have you. Capitalism is fine.

My problem is with those who are unwilling to take the "Honest Profit" and be content. Those who feel the need to lie, cheat and defraud out of pure greed for the extra "corrupt profit"

As usual no one is willing to hold them accountable as long as the profits are there. Even the very people being frauded seem to be content to continue to allow themselves to be taken advantage of.

Of coarse these are likely the same people that will turn around and reconsign the cards to these same Big consigners and then shill bid the cards again.


Rob, I did see the CU post Probenstein put up about that Super Bowl Opus Book.

How much more openly arrogant can it be. To post a thread trying to pitch a "one of a kind item" that they OBVIOUSLY didn't get the price they wanted as it was shilled and relisted again for the 4th time!
They don't even try to hide the fraud no more!

Its pretty bad when even some of the CU board kool aid drinkers are even starting to call the guy out.

Edited by BigRedOne (02/06/13 07:38 PM)
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#2015530 - 02/06/13 07:49 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: BigRedOne]
SMtJoy
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Lots of truths in this thread, great stuff guys. I sure hope some of the newer posters are paying attention.
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#2015531 - 02/06/13 08:15 PM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: BigRedOne]
trex
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Nothing wrong with capitalism, what the market will bear is fine. The problem I have is manipulating the price or artificially inflating the price and in turn artificially manipulating supposedly reliable guides which plays into the "corrupt profits" you're talking about.

And you're right, if no one holds them accountable they'll keep up the same practice.

So, yeah, the same people will turn around and reconsign their cards to the same consignors, after they have bought the card themselves, on paper anyway, driving VCP up, the consignor gets his 5%-10%, VCP goes up then he turns around and consigns it again over time, once the price has been manipulated or artificially inflated. Thus one has to use VCP judiciously and weed out the, well let's say clean out the pig pen.

And yeah, there are plenty of of "up right" collectors still out there, but there are more than enough corrupt A holes to make up for the honest ones.

As for as the cu board, they're just calling their own out. For the most part of that group, they were all spawned in the same cesspool.
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#2015579 - 02/09/13 06:58 AM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: trex]
royalbrett
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What about safety bids? But if you are their buddy, they get defended, right?
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#2015582 - 02/09/13 08:58 AM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: royalbrett]
bbo
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Shilling is cheating. Period. If you want to put a reserve, put a reserve. If you want to start out at a minimum, set a minimum. But don't bid on your own cards to run up the price. Would you want someone to do that to you?

What's so difficult to understand about this?
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#2015670 - 02/13/13 08:47 AM Re: Same card...same grade......not same prices....hmmmm [Re: bbo]
hitman
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I was always amused by a few well known consigners who got a lot more $ for graded cards then others on ebay.If card is graded an 8 and everything looks to be the samewhy pay 50-100 more then another auction, doesn't make sense.Now if your selling you might want to send cards to them to get a higher price. I don't think everybody who sends cards to those guys shill but I am positive some do.
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