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#2015801 - 02/20/13 09:41 AM Re: Am I at the right place? [Re: type collector]
Blackie
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 4766
Loc: Southern US

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Hi Leon!
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Working on the following sets:
1966 Topps Football
1964-65 Topps Hockey
Upgrades to 65Topps Football

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#2015805 - 02/20/13 03:51 PM Re: Am I at the right place? [Re: type collector]
BigRedOne
old hand


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1046

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K-Nole

While this board may not be the most active board it IS by far the best for member interaction.

Certainly we have butted heads here a few times and differed on opinions from time to time, but I know of no other board with more polite and courteous members. I will also add that many of the members of this board are some of the most knowledgable people in the hobby and are likely here because they are intelligent enough to have seen through a lot of the fraud, corruption and falsehoods that exisit on many of the other boards and throughout the hobby.

The biggest FALSEHOOD? TPGing(Third Party Grading)

While I can appriciate how well a graded card can present(Mainly in SGC holders) and I do work on a few Graded card sets myself.

While TPGing started out as a good thing, It has become filled with greed, corruption and fraud.

The stupid money that is given for these "Gem Mint 10's" that on any given day are really no better than Mint 9's speaks volumes about how stupid many collectors have become.

YOU don't need any graded cards to justify being on this board.

Like I said I dabble with a few graded sets, but the overwhelming majority of my collection will always remain RAW,the way it was meant to be.

In FACT I have been criticized by many for breaking cards out of slabs for my Raw sets.
The "what's it worth Label collectors" are just absolutely baffled at why ANYBODY would do this.

Another big Falsehood
"Graded cards are preserved and protected"

NOT! I can't speak for BGS, but neither PSA or SGC slabs offer the best protection for one's cards. In fact, both are known to cause possible damage to cards and I believe offer far less protection than the standard Card Sver I's or properly used Ultra Pro Pages and Binders.

The bottom line is, as others have mentioned is that there is NO WRONG WAY TO COLLECT!

I have enjoyed many of your posts and respect your enthusiasim and true passion for your cards.

I look forward to talking cards with you.

John


Edited by BigRedOne (02/21/13 01:17 AM)
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#2015806 - 02/20/13 06:32 PM Re: Am I at the right place? [Re: BigRedOne]
Blackie
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 4766
Loc: Southern US

Offline
Very well said John!!!! I agree 100%. Ive learned more from this board than any other and have met alot of great collectors and friends. There really is no wrong way to collect. Main thing is to have fun.
_________________________
Working on the following sets:
1966 Topps Football
1964-65 Topps Hockey
Upgrades to 65Topps Football

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#2015807 - 02/20/13 08:40 PM Re: Am I at the right place? [Re: Blackie]
SMtJoy
veteran


Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 1503

content Online
While I dont agree with everything John said, I do agree when it comes to this board. Lots of great people who like to collect cards in any form.

I would argue that the real problem is not so much as John stated - The biggest FALSEHOOD? TPGing. I believe the TPG's provide a great service and worth my money. Prior to grading, Houston had 2 shows a year and with a very limited vintage selection so the only way to buy was ebay/dealers raw, the amount of NM cards with creases/stains or worse trimmed, I purchased was off the charts and one of the main reason I quit collecting many years ago. IMO the TPG have helped me assemble a collection thru the mail and have a reasonable chance to get the card I wanted and in the condition it was advertised in. Yes the TPG make mistakes but massively less than the old buying raw was for me.

As far as the crazy money paid for some of these 10's I dont think we can blame the companies for that but the collectors who are more than willing to shell out that kinda of cash. IMO they are the real crazy ones and need to hold off the kool aid. Paying 2k for a PSA 8 1962 topps common will never make sense to me (but if you have the money and that's what you collect, knock yourself out). I think a lot of collectors are more upset at the escalation of prices for mint cards that are run up by the price of a PSA 10 that its going to cost them a lot more to buy the 96/9 they want so they are pissed.

On protection, I have no problem letting my 3 or 9 year old nieces play with my graded cards and have no fear what they do with them I also dont have to instruct them in the proper way to turn a 9 card page in a binder or hand them a card saver 1 and pray like hell. If the only person who handles your cards is yourself or other experienced collectors then the protection provided by grading is minimal.

After all that disagreeing with John, I still totally respect how he collects and he has some of the nicest raw sets you will ever see hands down amazing. That's the beauty of this boards we don't have to agree but when we don't most can handle an honest disagreement and at the end of the day still agree to our mutual love of cards.

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#2015808 - 02/20/13 09:11 PM Re: Am I at the right place? [Re: BigRedOne]
bbo
The Collectinator


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3376
Loc: Top of the 1959 Registry

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 Originally Posted By: BigRedOne
The biggest FALSEHOOD? TPGing(Third Party Grading)

The "what's it worth Label collectors" are just absolutely baffled at why ANYBODY would do this.

Another big Falsehood
"Graded cards are preserved and protected"

PSA or SGC slabs both are known to cause possible damage to cards and I believe offer far less protection than the standard Card Saver I's or properly used Ultra Pro Pages and Binders.

John


Can't let these wild statements go unchallenged.

The biggest falsehood is still dealers and sellers without scruples, morals and ethics. Try buying raw cards anyway except in person where you can inspect them carefully. Certain TPG'ers may come in second, but it's a distant second.

The "what's it worth Label collector" was preceded by the "what's it worth raw collector" who banked on Beckett Price Guide. As a very wise person once said, if I were to desire to corner any part of this hobby, it would be the price guide producer.

As for protection, there is no way a flimsy, bendable Card Saver or 9-pocket can provide anywhere near the protection of hard plastic. Any assertion to the contrary is patently absurd on its face. The fact that cards can be constantly removed and reinserted into the former but not the latter prevents such an assinine statement holding up to scrutiny. I suggest anyone search the internet or inquire on the Net-54 or PSA message board for the PSA holder/clothes dryer test or the Paint Can shaker test.

In a perfect world, I'd rather my cards be raw and hold their original pristine condition regardless of how or how many times they're handled and by whom. But the world simply doesn't work that way.

Other than that, BigRedOne is a fine gentleman and outstanding collectibles collector with a fine collection.
_________________________
#1 in 1959 Topps. Officially known as Assassin according to stanthemanfan 3/31/2014 and god of minor league basketball according to cammb.

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#2015817 - 02/21/13 07:56 PM Re: Am I at the right place? [Re: bbo]
bowlingshoeguy
newbie


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 26
Loc: Minnesota

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K Nole, If you are looking to add a good looking Cobb at a decent price look into T202s you can normally get a nice presentation one for under $300 - $500, I have always been amazed that they run at such a low price.

Lee
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Always accepting consignment for Sterling Sports Auctions

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#2015847 - 02/23/13 04:34 AM Re: Am I at the right place? [Re: bowlingshoeguy]
BigRedOne
old hand


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1046

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And this is why I love this board.


First, I do agree with SMtjoy that as a raw collector it is very difficult to obtain raw cards that are not overgraded. At least with the TPGing you know approx where you stand with the quality of card in each particular grade, although even that is becoming more and more inconsistant.
The downside for me as a raw collector is I usually have to pay a premium for the graded card which I end up losing after removing the card for my raw set. A small price to pay to avoid having to buy the same card over and over due to overgrading.

As for the protection, perhaps my wording of the on the topic was not the best. Thankfully our board scholar BBO has corrected me.

Obviously the hard plastic slabs offer greater protection from outside dangers like hammers, bowling balls and anvils, concerns every collector has. My concern is the card movement inside the slabs that over time can cause wear points on the card. With any card storage system proper handling is required.

Not as likely a problem for cards that remain in a personal collection for a long period of time and are handled properly.
The problem cards I see are the ones that are bought and sold multiple times and sent through the postal system multiple times. The PSA slabs are especially vulnerable to this movement, and bouncing off those plastic rails inside the slab.

I surely don't buy into no assinine(new word I learned, thanks Mike) "paint shaker" or "Dryer" test. Send me your 62 Fran Tarkenton Rookie or a 71 Topps Nolan Ryan and we'll put it to the test.

The card movement inside those slabs is even more of a concern to me on condition sensitive sets like 71 Baseball or the 62 Topps Football sets.
I strongly belive that these type of cards that are bought, sold and shipped multiple times will deteriorate in condition over long term storage in the PSA slab.

The SGC gasket and slab I think hold the card a bit more secure, but again movement and friction points on the edge of the card can be a problem.
Cards have also been known to slip under the gasket as well.

So, while my storage system is more vulnerable to Washers, Dryers and Paintshakers. Im a bit more comfortable knowing that the cards are secure and free of any friction or stress points to the edges of the cards due to this kind of movement.

So Far.... it's been a Perfect World!


Happy Collecting!

John



Edited by BigRedOne (02/23/13 04:38 AM)
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#2015876 - 02/24/13 05:50 PM Re: Am I at the right place? [Re: BigRedOne]
K-Nole
enthusiast


Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 324
Loc: Topeka, Ks

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Since I became a member of this board. I have already learned 10X's more then I could have ever dreamed.

I went cold turkey from 1993 to 2011, so 18 years. And when I came back, it got me!!!

I left in 1993 for a couple reasons, my son was born and I got married, but also because the hobby had become too money driven. Too, "how much can I get for this". I hated it. I collected for the fun and for the interaction with it and the actual sports.

I actually got back into it when my wife and I had separated and I was sick to my stomach every day, missing my 3 kids, and I needed something to take my mind off everything.
Since then my wife and I have reconciled, but I fell in love with the hobby again, except ONLY vintage cards.
I am mostly proud to say that my 10 year old son has followed my love for the hobby and I am bringing him up to be the "next Generation" of card collectors... With the help of a certain somebody on this board!!!! YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!WINK WINK

It is really kinda sad that my son and I have been to 3 card shows in the 3 months, and I do honestly believe, he is the ONLY person under 25 I have EVER seen at any of those shows, and that is not an exaggeration. THe hobby is just not big with the younger kids who would rather play on their games systems. Thats why I am so proud of my son and love the time we spend together in the hobby.

The people on this board are UNBELIEVABLE. They are the nicest, kindest, caring, helpful, people I have EVER met on a board.

Consider me a "lifer" on this board.

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#2015878 - 02/24/13 05:58 PM Re: Am I at the right place? [Re: K-Nole]
Blackie
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 4766
Loc: Southern US

Offline
So glad to have ya aboard brother!
_________________________
Working on the following sets:
1966 Topps Football
1964-65 Topps Hockey
Upgrades to 65Topps Football

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#2015879 - 02/24/13 06:36 PM Re: Am I at the right place? [Re: K-Nole]
bbo
The Collectinator


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3376
Loc: Top of the 1959 Registry

Offline
 Originally Posted By: K-Nole
With the help of a certain somebody on this board!!!! YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!WINK WINK


Well, you could have knocked me over with a feather. Seriously, all this adulation is uncalled for and makes me uncomfortable. But thank you and you're welcome, just the same.

Now, excuse me while I go have a good cry and finish watching the Oscars.
_________________________
#1 in 1959 Topps. Officially known as Assassin according to stanthemanfan 3/31/2014 and god of minor league basketball according to cammb.

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