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#2016643 - 04/16/13 11:07 AM GUESS THE GRADE.
cammb
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There are no creases, back is clean and centered, corners are sharp.


Edited by cammb (04/16/13 11:10 AM)

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#2016645 - 04/16/13 11:09 AM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: cammb]
Blackie
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Sgc 86
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#2016648 - 04/16/13 11:34 AM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: Blackie]
KRB
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i go a lil higher and say 88 nm/mt 8
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#2016651 - 04/16/13 02:01 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: KRB]
bbo
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I agree with Blackie, 86.
And, yes, you wuz robbed.
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#2016652 - 04/16/13 02:16 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: bbo]
Blackie
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Mike were on the same page here! Your the master grader in my mind, you, Jim, John, Scott and Tony are right 90% of the time.

It just feels like a 86 to me. I looked at a few of my 86's and it seems like it should be an 88 or possibly better but thats my guess and Im sticking with it.
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#2016663 - 04/16/13 07:20 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: Blackie]
BigRedOne
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Rob

Without the card in hand, They are all basically guesses based on a scan.
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#2016665 - 04/16/13 07:23 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: BigRedOne]
Blackie
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Just hoping my guess is right...
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#2016673 - 04/17/13 03:23 AM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: Blackie]
Toledo Mudhen
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Centering would make it an 86... I really believe that 86s are 88s that the grader didn't really care for the centering....
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#2016674 - 04/17/13 04:38 AM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: Toledo Mudhen]
Blackie
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 Originally Posted By: Toledo Mudhen
Centering would make it an 86... I really believe that 86s are 88s that the grader didn't really care for the centering....




Thats a damn good point brother! You very well may be right. Judging from alot of my SGC 86's from the 58 set, Ive noticed clear and sharp focus, sharp edges, of course no creasing, staining or marks but the slightest tilt or off centerness in most of the 86's. A majority of those tend to fall in the o/c top to bottom by the looks of mine. Somtimes I find it best to look for a well centered 84's than to pull the trigger on an 86 while paying more just for the number grade. Ive slowly progressed a bit to look for more well centered cards. But I must make this point, im looking more twords completion at this point so 86's in cards I don't have in my set are pretty tempting.


Edited by Blackie (04/17/13 04:39 AM)
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#2016680 - 04/17/13 02:56 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: Blackie]
DrD
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92

What do I win?
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#2016682 - 04/17/13 03:40 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: DrD]
cammb
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Here it is. I was floored. I have to break it out and go over with a fine tooth comb. It looked perfect to me. I thought an 88 or 92.


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#2016683 - 04/17/13 03:41 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: DrD]
cammb
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Here it is. I was floored. I have to break it out and go over with a fine tooth comb. It looked perfect to me. I thought an 88 or 92.


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#2016684 - 04/17/13 05:07 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: cammb]
trex
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Cammb,

It has a surface issue somewhere. Probably a wrinkle or spider crease. Put it under a halogen lamp and rotate it. You'll find it. If you don't find it in the holder, at this point crack it out and look at it under the lamp and with about 10X magnification, front and back. If you don't find anything...they blew it.

What did John say earlier, "how in the world can you judge a card from a scan, you have to have the card in hand"....unless you're BBO. But then he can see air.
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#2016686 - 04/17/13 06:03 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: trex]
Blackie
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NO WAY! That card looks so much better than a 60. Very similar to my #4 Hank Foiles that SGC found a very small spider crease even being in the PSA 7 holder.
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#2016688 - 04/17/13 06:23 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: DrD]
trex
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 Originally Posted By: DrD
92

What do I win?


LOL. Do you really want me to tell you? Seriously!


Edited by trex (04/17/13 06:24 PM)
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#2016689 - 04/17/13 06:28 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: Toledo Mudhen]
BigRedOne
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 Originally Posted By: Toledo Mudhen
Centering would make it an 86... I really believe that 86s are 88s that the grader didn't really care for the centering....


While this may be true it surely varies widely between each individual grader. I think over all SGC is tougher on corners and card registration than centering. There are plenty of examples of SGC 88 or higher cards with less than stellar centering.

Maybe its just my "individualality" as a grader.

keep in mind that SGC does not use a qualifier(which I agree with on centering) and I believe a card can be 88 or 92 with questionable centering as long as it has exceptionally strong attributes in all the other areas of the card.

That being said I prefer not to have those types of cards if possible.

None of these cards have accetable centering to me, but still obtained higher than an 86 grade.

It really comes down to the "Opinion" of the individual grader, which still makes it a very subjective isssue.





I think the Santo has better centering than any of the 71's above. Hard to make a call based on the blurry scan.

John


Edited by BigRedOne (04/17/13 06:33 PM)
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#2016690 - 04/17/13 06:29 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: trex]
bbo
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 Originally Posted By: trex
...unless you're BBO. But then he can see air.


See it? I don't even breathe it unless I really need to. All about efficiency.

Rub out the crease on that puppy (my guess it's on the back) and sub it for an 86.
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#2016691 - 04/17/13 06:32 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: bbo]
bbo
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Big Red, I can almost guarantee that none of those football cards have centering worse than 35/65, if measured accurately. The human eye plays tricks on you with centering. I agree that 35/65 is less than ideal, nearly a 2:1 ratio. But the specs say....therefore, it's an 88.
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#2016692 - 04/17/13 06:47 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: bbo]
trex
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 Originally Posted By: bbo
 Originally Posted By: trex
...unless you're BBO. But then he can see air.


See it? I don't even breathe it unless I really need to. All about efficiency.

Rub out the crease on that puppy (my guess it's on the back) and sub it for an 86.


Yeah, but wait till you get my age...that efficiency will kick up a notch. Or down depending on your definition.

Nah, it's on the front...any TPG'er worth their weight wouldn't knock it down that much for anything on the back. Probably go unnoticed unless the whole back was missing or maybe if only half the back was there.

But, if they missed it that bad and there is absolutely no surface issues, front or back, with the card, my submission days are over. Like I've really broke the bank with sub's this past year anyway. LOL.
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#2016695 - 04/17/13 07:45 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: bbo]
BigRedOne
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Mike

I liken this to the argument we often make against the "Stat" people in the QB debates.

Stats don't always tell the tale.

Reguardless of the stats and measurments with a micrometer or what have you, the human eye (Thus eye appeal),still trumps Specs for me and I believe most collectors as well.

Measurements are fine and dandy, but the Human Eye is still going to be the deciding factor when people look at cards.

All of those 71's may have the attributes of the grade, but they all carry a mental o/c qualifier to anyone who sees them, which is likey why they have been sitting on ebay for quite some time.

Cammb's Santo card had considerably nicer centering than ANY of those o/c 71's and yet some down graded it to an 86 in their guess due to the centering.

Build a house with a ruler, Build a collection with your Eye.

John
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#2016699 - 04/18/13 04:41 AM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: BigRedOne]
bbo
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If one dislikes the specs, become a grader, or better yet, start a grading company. If one dislikes the law, run for Congress.
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#2016701 - 04/18/13 08:41 AM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: bbo]
DrD
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I guess I don't win jack sh**! \:\)
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#2016704 - 04/18/13 02:50 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: DrD]
trex
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 Originally Posted By: DrD
I guess I don't win jack sh**! \:\)


Good you have a sense of humor about it. \:\)
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#2016705 - 04/18/13 03:38 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: trex]
cammb
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OK. I broke the card out. There is a an ultra slight wrinkle in the top right corner. That doesnt detract from the card one bit. The corner is still razor sharp. This should have gotten an 82 at the least imo. Maybe I will send it to PSA for an 8. lol



Edited by cammb (04/18/13 03:51 PM)

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#2016706 - 04/18/13 04:22 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: cammb]
Blackie
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Its a nice card all the way around Tony! Wonder if it could get an 82 next time around.
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#2016707 - 04/18/13 06:20 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: cammb]
trex
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 Originally Posted By: cammb
OK. I broke the card out. There is a an ultra slight wrinkle in the top right corner. That doesnt detract from the card one bit. The corner is still razor sharp. This should have gotten an 82 at the least imo. Maybe I will send it to PSA for an 8. lol



Well, good luck with it, but nothing higher than a 5 (EX) can have any wrinkle, according to everything I've researched. Of course we all know PSA is notorious for missing these, so, it just might slip by. But then, assume PSA does grade it higher than a 5, as you say an 8. Now down the road a bit, you decide to sell the card, you know it has a wrinkle in the top right corner and you also know it's difficult to see in a holder and in any other manner other than out of the holder and in direct light with just the right angle, and you also now know the card is no better than a 5. Do you in good conscience sell the card as an 8? And if you answer yes, how would you feel if someone did the same thing to you?

Just playing devil's advocate. I don't really think you'd do that.

BTW, it's a very nice looking card from a distance. I think it was John, BigRedOne, who said a couple of days ago, "you can't accurately judge a card without having it in hand." Hmmm!
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#2016708 - 04/18/13 10:20 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: trex]
BigRedOne
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[/quote]
BTW, it's a very nice looking card from a distance. I think it was John, BigRedOne, who said a couple of days ago, "you can't accurately judge a card without having it in hand." Hmmm! [/quote]


In this case, even having the card "In Hand" proved difficult to accurately judge the card.

Its still a very nice looking card, but a wrinkle will most definately detract from the card in the eyes of the graders.

John
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#2016713 - 04/19/13 08:52 AM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: trex]
cammb
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I have to disagree to a point. Brcause a tpger says one grade doesnt mean I have to agree with it. In my humble opinion, this card grades ex/nm. I will send you the card for your opinion if you care.
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#2016721 - 04/19/13 04:11 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: cammb]
trex
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Nah, don't send it. I've already said it's a nice looking card from a distance, I'm just stating everything I've researched indicates any card with a wrinkle won't grade any higher then EX. I don't have a dog in the hunt.
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#2016725 - 04/20/13 12:03 AM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: cammb]
BigRedOne
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 Originally Posted By: cammb
I have to disagree to a point. Brcause a tpger says one grade doesnt mean I have to agree with it. In my humble opinion, this card grades ex/nm. I will send you the card for your opinion if you care.


Cammb

Your ABSOLUTELY right that you don't have to agree with any TPGer. That is just one person's opinon. But if you submit the card to any TPGer you are agreeing to their terms and "Specs"

See BBO's post a few posts ago.

What's the progress on the Tobacco cards you were breaking out? Would love to see some pics of that project.

John
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#2016729 - 04/20/13 07:49 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: BigRedOne]
cammb
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I got about half of the set. I will scan a page for you. I bought 9 pocket sleeves with black backgrounds. They look beautiful.
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#2016730 - 04/20/13 07:59 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: cammb]
cammb
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#2016731 - 04/20/13 08:13 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: cammb]
Blackie
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Great looking cards Tony!
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#2016732 - 04/20/13 09:33 PM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: Blackie]
SMtJoy
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Sweet T205's!
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#2016744 - 04/22/13 01:24 AM Re: GUESS THE GRADE. [Re: SMtJoy]
BigRedOne
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Yes! Those are going to look GREAT flowing together in the page layout.
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