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#2017943 - 09/28/13 08:58 AM Boiling Point
cammb
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Registered: 12/30/10
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I am a big advocate of SGC grading, and will only use them. All too often I submit cards hoping for grades that I think are right on only to get disappointed when they come in with lower grades. I usually crack them out and try to see what I missed. Most of the times I can come up with something which is so miniscule that I say to myself, Is it worth the money spent for grading. I just got this card back yesterday. The only thing that I can see wrong with it is some sort of a mark in the yellow of Perry's picture. I got a grade of 60. This card is NM!



http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Topps-307-B...=item232baf9c8c

Seeing this Robinson put me over the edge. I am now following Blackie's path to collecting. I will finish the remaing sets I have in SGC grade but in the future all of my new sets will be raw and in VG/EX or above. I started a 58 set in this condition and I am really enjoying looking at the cards in an album again.

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#2017944 - 09/28/13 10:28 AM Re: Boiling Point [Re: cammb]
bbo
The Collectinator


Registered: 02/07/06
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Tony, there has to be a surface wrinkle, either front or back. It's not the best centered card, top to bottom and there is some scuffing in the red area on the left, but neither centering or scuffing should knock it below 80. Scans don't show wrinkles, but there has to be one.
_________________________
#1 in 1959 Topps. Officially known as Assassin according to stanthemanfan 3/31/2014 and god of minor league basketball according to cammb.

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#2017945 - 09/28/13 10:56 AM Re: Boiling Point [Re: bbo]
cammb
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Mike, I got 2 magnifying lenses that I use. Believe me, there isn't any wrinkle. Im just fed up with TPGers. Did you see the link to that Brooks Robinson?



As you can see, the centering is pretty decent. The frustration has been mounting for quite some time. I'm not looking for the perefect card but I would like the appropriate grade, especially when I'm cracking them out of PSA holders and getting back one or two grades lower.


Edited by cammb (09/28/13 10:59 AM)

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#2017947 - 09/28/13 12:43 PM Re: Boiling Point [Re: cammb]
bbo
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Registered: 02/07/06
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I hear ya on the tough grading from SGC. I've fought that battle for way too long. My last invoice (from National) wasn't bad. I've got another due to pop this week. Based on your post, I'm not looking forward to it.

Why don't you send the 1963 Perry back and ask Goldberg to respond personally. At least have him ask the grader to explain himself and attach a sticky-note to show the problem.

These guys are killing the golden goose if they keep pissing off guys like you. Mintacular is P.O.'d, so is trex. Others have left. I'm on the verge. Now you. It's really a questionable business model, especially for #2 on the ladder.

Send it back. Appeal it. Throw the challenge flag. Ask for a ruling.
_________________________
#1 in 1959 Topps. Officially known as Assassin according to stanthemanfan 3/31/2014 and god of minor league basketball according to cammb.

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#2017948 - 09/28/13 03:42 PM Re: Boiling Point [Re: bbo]
cammb
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I cracked it out already. Mike, its not just this, its many others. I got cards sitting in these SGC holders that, in my opinion, are way undergraded. I have been sending incards for about 2 years now and only once have I got a 92. Its frustrating as hell when I buy a graded card from Probstein an say to myself, "how does he get that grade when the card doesn't warrant it?" That Robinson card with a grade of 60 is a complete joke. I will probably buy the rest of the graded cards I need and only occasionally submit in the future.
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#2017992 - 10/16/13 01:23 PM Re: Boiling Point [Re: cammb]
yankeeno7
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Registered: 03/10/09
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Here is my guess....It is a NM card but with printing defects that makes it drop to an EX.

Two printing flaws I see....the white flecks on the left border which is extremely common for 63s. Those could even be surface loss due to cards or the original sheets sticking together. Thats why you see so much printing flaws on both fronts and backs of 63s.

The other is the defect or stain near Gaylord Perry's face.

That will make the card appropriately graded.

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#2017995 - 10/16/13 07:17 PM Re: Boiling Point [Re: yankeeno7]
cammb
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Judging by SGC grading standards, how does that Robinson get a 60! That's what got me aggravated. I was not looking for an 84 or higher but definitely an 80. After I complete the sets I am working on, its strictly raw for me.
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#2018000 - 10/17/13 05:51 PM Re: Boiling Point [Re: cammb]
brewing
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I agree that Dick Egan card was undergraded.

I often question the business model of SGC.
They do some things very well.
- great performance at grading on time
- most consistent TPG
- very responsive to customers that contact them

Things that they don't do well
- the Registry is a joke. Nothing inflates PSA card value like their registry.
- biggest holder in the industry (takes up a bunch of storage space)
- unjustly hard grading, which turns customers off (no way is the card this thread is about is a 5)

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#2018008 - 10/19/13 07:46 AM Re: Boiling Point [Re: brewing]
cammb
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Thanks. Agree with you on every point.
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#2018009 - 10/19/13 06:41 PM Re: Boiling Point [Re: cammb]
vintagebaseball
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Tony,

I absolutely couldn't agree more with you and Blackie. I also have gone back to the ungraded card route in crease/wrinkle free vg-ex or better. I am far happier and have rediscovered why I collected baseball cards in the first place. You are right, they look great in the album. Enjoy the hobby, because that is what it is.

Robert

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#2018011 - 10/22/13 07:58 AM Re: Boiling Point [Re: vintagebaseball]
cammb
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Thanks, Rob. I am collecting T 205s and 1958 Topps in raw vg/ex or better. I bought card pages in black. Take a look.



Edited by cammb (10/22/13 07:58 AM)

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#2018012 - 10/22/13 09:18 AM Re: Boiling Point [Re: cammb]
Blackie
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Those are BEAUTIFUL works of Art Tony!!! Love the raw look in the pages bro!
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Working on the following sets:
1966 Topps Football
1964-65 Topps Hockey
Upgrades to 65Topps Football

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#2018013 - 10/22/13 10:54 AM Re: Boiling Point [Re: cammb]
vintagebaseball
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Tony,

Those are terrific! I am putting together ungraded sets of '57 and '59 Topps. Both will be in albums. I have some higher grade graded material that I am about to sell. The money I make from those graded cards will go a long way toward my ungraded sets that I am building.

I like those black pages. Where'd you get them??

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#2018018 - 10/23/13 05:41 AM Re: Boiling Point [Re: Blackie]
cammb
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Registered: 12/30/10
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Thanks, Rob. The 58 set is moving along pretty nicely. It feels good to collect again without the pressure of tpgers.
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#2018019 - 10/23/13 05:45 AM Re: Boiling Point [Re: vintagebaseball]
cammb
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That's the way to do it, Robert. I recently sold my graded set of 49 Bowmans and put most of the money into my raw sets including my 52 Berk Ross. I got the black pages on ebay.
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#2018021 - 10/23/13 03:38 PM Re: Boiling Point [Re: cammb]
vintagebaseball
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Registered: 11/22/12
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 Originally Posted By: cammb
Thanks, Rob. The 58 set is moving along pretty nicely. It feels good to collect again without the pressure of tpgers.


Good to hear! After I get the 57 or 59 set finished (if there is such a thing), 58 is up next for me. I feel the EXACT same way about the pressure of tgpers. It took me a little while to work up the "courage" (I know that sounds stupid) to sell my higher grade slabbed cards. I almost felt like I was doing something wrong even thinking about selling the graded cards and trading "down." I successfully sold some last night by the way. For a while, I even fell into the trap of buying holders and not cards. I just turned 40, and I remember collecting before grading. Albeit back then I was buying 80s crap! I am having fun again. I think some people think you can't have standards unless you are involved in graded cards. I am still looking for crease/wrinkle free, clean cards vgex or better. I love flipping through my heavy duty binders.

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#2018022 - 10/23/13 03:48 PM Re: Boiling Point [Re: cammb]
vintagebaseball
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Registered: 11/22/12
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 Originally Posted By: cammb
That's the way to do it, Robert. I recently sold my graded set of 49 Bowmans and put most of the money into my raw sets including my 52 Berk Ross. I got the black pages on ebay.


Same here. I just sold some graded 57s that are financing some nice, ungraded crease/wrinkle free mid-grade 57s that I am buying from someone local. This is way more affordable and I am much happier out of the grading game. I don't anticipate ever going back. I am a collector. Not to mention the fact that my wife is happier, too. \:\)

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