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#206030 - 09/02/03 01:55 PM Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auction
njdolphins
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Dear All

I know we all tend to dwell on the negative and that there are examples where SGC cards outsell their PSA rivals but in a 2 recent auctions for a 1963 Fleer Lou Clinton card, the PSA 8 version outsold the SGC88 version by more than a factor of 3.

1963 Fleer PSA 8 Lou Clinton

1963 Fleer Lou Clinton SGC 88

Thoughts? Comments? Is it merely the fact that my auctions aren't "high tech" like those oy my competitor?

Regards

Ron
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#206031 - 09/02/03 02:16 PM Re: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auction [Re: njdolphins]
srs1a
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Ron, I looked at both auctions and I thought your presentation was superior to the other guys -- you had a high quality scan which showed the card well and no other "stuff" to distract the eye. I don't know what to say. Scott
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#206032 - 09/02/03 02:29 PM Re: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auction *DELETED* [Re: njdolphins]
MW1
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#206033 - 09/02/03 02:39 PM Re: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auction [Re: MW1]
njdolphins
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MW

Thanks for your input. I figured part of the price was attributed to what I refered to as his "high tech" presentation. I tried to take a cue from his auction refering to scarcity of issue by mentioning that there is only one 63 Fleer Clinton grader higher in an SGC holder and I am the proud owner of it

On the plus side, I did realize $100 for another of my 63 Fleer commons (Don Lee).

I guess too many people are still into "buying the holder" and we can only hope that perception will continue to change.

BTW, did you ever announce the answer to the August trivia contest?

Regards

Ron
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#206034 - 09/02/03 10:07 PM Re: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auction [Re: njdolphins]
gemint
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It could come down to simple timing as well. Sometimes it's just a matter of catching the eye of two serious bidders at the same time. Even though I don't collect SGC cards, I would certainly pick up a tough card in an SGC or GAI holder if it looked solid in the scan and cross it over. I'm sure SGC collectors would do the same in reverse. It makes good sense to hunt for bargains wherever they may lie. If I was building a '63 Fleer set and needed that card, I certainly would have paid more than 1/3 the PSA price for your card. I think other set builders would do the same. That's why I think it was bad timing.

I hope you still made out on the sale and good luck in your future auctions.

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#206035 - 09/03/03 11:55 AM Re: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auction [Re: gemint]
aro13
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Although the points made as to why this card sold for more in the PSA holder are probably valid - in this case the second highest bidder (coneyislandsportscards) was the same for both cards. He was willing to pay over $170 for the PSA card and only $50 for the SGC card. My guess is that he is strictly a PSA registry guy and was not willing to take the risk that the card would cross over.

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#206036 - 09/03/03 12:33 PM Re: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auction [Re: aro13]
srs1a
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Hi aro13 and welcome. I'm sure you are right about the 2nd bidder being a PSA collector. I would expect that these large descrepencies will collapse as more SGC-to-PSA crossover information becomes public knowledge. Personally, I don't think there would be a large risk and I think the winner of the SGC card got a bargain (and poor Ron got the short end of the stick ).
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#206037 - 09/03/03 01:32 PM Re: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auction [Re: srs1a]
njdolphins
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All

I can tell you the Coney Island is not a PSA registry guy that fears SGC cards won't cross. He has been a good source for me to purchase 1953 Bowman B/W cards from (already SGC holdered) and has bought over 30 graded SGC cards from me. I believe that he bids a bit more aggressively on PSA slabbed cards but have never found him to be averse to the SGC holder.

Ron
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#206038 - 09/03/03 03:00 PM Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions *DELETED* [Re: njdolphins]
MW1
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#206039 - 09/03/03 07:11 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
njdolphins
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MW

Bravo to your analysis but you are only looking at the Clinton that I sold and not the other 22 SGC graded 63 Fleers I was selling at the same time.

SGC 80 Adcock sold for $51 ----> 56.6% of SMR
SGC 80 Clemente sold for $81 ------> 73.6% of SMR
SGC 84 Wills RC sold for $ 51 ------> 48.5% of SMR
SGC 80 Mazeroski sold for $10.50 ---> 42% of SMR
SGC 80 Boyer sold for $11 ----------> 78% of SMR
SGC 80 Cepeda sold for $ 17.50 ----> 70% of SMR
SGC 86 Burgess, Mahaffey, Dalrymple and Law sold for
22.50, 17.50, 16.50, 15.50 --> 75%, 58%, 55%, 52% of SMR
SGC 80 Craig sold for $8.50 ---------> 71% of SMR
SGC 80 Monboquette sold for $6.99 ---------> 58% of SMR
SGC 86 Purkey and Donovan sold for $16.50 & 14.99 ---> 55% & 50% of SMR
SGC 92 Don Lee sold for $100 -------> 121% of SMR
SGC 84 Piersall & Terry sold for $11.55 each -------> 58% of SMR
SGC 86 Drysdale went unsold with opening bid of $59.99 ---> 48% of SMR
SGC 86 Siebern went unsold with opening bid of $14.99 -----> 50% of SMR

So, I didn't particularly enjoy recounting my auction results but I thought that the whole story should be represented from that auction. Please don't compare what one of my 2 cards which cracked SMR did versus his entire lot. Instead please observe that on the whole, I did MUCH worse than he.

All this having been said, I really love SGC for my collectibles for reasons I have stated countless times and will continue to EXCLUSIVELY utilize their services. I can only hope that they day will come where I don't get taken to the woodshed relative to PSA card sales when it's so damned obvious that at worst these are homogenous products.

Regards

Ron
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#206040 - 09/03/03 10:06 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


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Hey Guys...this is Basilone from the PSA Boards....I am the gentlemen who sold those 1963 Fleers.

I was quite happy with the results....the key to my sale was that included in the 34 cards were 13 out of the 14 Lowest POPs in the set and 9 out of the top 11 highest values SMR cards in the set. I was hoping to get my money back on the stars as they are listed every week on eBay. The key was the low pops which I was lucky to buy months ago when original owner sold them using below market Buy It Nows.

Anyways...thanks MW for the analysis...(I usually do that sort of thing on the other board).

John

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#206041 - 09/03/03 10:10 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


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NJDolphins-

I may be mistaken...but did you not win several cards off of me? From you earlier post you said your were exclusively SGC? If so...fine by me...but I have seen you bid a number of PSA 1963 Fleers over the last several months.

I think your scan is fine....the upper left corner looks suspect from the scan but I cannot tell for sure. I can tell you this...many collectors just search for "1963 Fleer PSA (8,9,10)" Im sure there are some collectors out there that would of paid more for your card but simply did not realize it was out there. BTW...the template was nothing fancy...just a stock template from an auction listing service.

John Basilone


Edited by Basilone (09/03/03 10:22 PM)

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#206042 - 09/03/03 10:52 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: njdolphins]
MW1
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Ron,

You are quite correct. I was only comparing cards that possessed the grade NM/MT on the label. The only other card in the group that you sold that would equate to a "high end" PSA 8 would be the SGC 92 Don Lee (which also did better than the PSA graded cards as a percent of SMR).

I can appreciate what you are saying, but I don't think you can compare EM and NM cards from the 1960s to cards that are NM/MT or better. My experience is that they represent two different markets. I think if you take a look at PSA prices for similar condition cards, you will see little difference. In fact, for the second group below, my best guess is if all of the auctions were begun at $9.99 with no reserves, they would have been within 10% or so of your SGC/SMR percentages. I firmly believe that any hypothesis that proposes an idea of "vast PSA superiority" is based on vacuous and unverifiable data.

And if if one DID conclude that 1963 Fleer baseball in grades of less than NM/MT sold marginally better in PSA holders, the difference between the two companies is getting smaller each month. Within a year there will be little or no real (or perceived) difference.

Ron, I really don't think your prices are that unusual or "low." Instead, the most obvious problem (apparent in BOTH SGC and PSA sales of EM and NM cards) is that the SMR is not that accurate. Is there anyone here who couldn't point out dozens of prices (or perhaps more) where the SMR is much too high or consistently too low?

One final comment. For reasons of comparison, I don't think it is accurate to "extrapolate" an SGC half-grade price since PSA does not have half-point grades. An SGC 86 is most closely associated with a "high-end" PSA 7 -- not a midpoint "value" that lies half-way in-between a PSA 7 and PSA 8. Taking this interpretive element into account, some of your SGC percentages would be much higher.


Examples from eBay (last 30 days):

Sold

1963 63 Fleer Ralph Terry PSA 6 (Ex-Mt) $10.67 ----> 88.9% of SMR

1963 Fleer checklist PSA 5 $136.50 ----> 78% of SMR

1963 Fleer-#42 Sandy Koufax PSA 7 nr mint $97.00 ----> 55.4% of SMR

1963 Fleer #22 Jim Kaat - PSA 7 $15.50 ----> 55.4% of SMR

1963 FLEER PSA 7 Smoky Burgess #55 - Pirates $21.71 ----> 109% of SMR



DID NOT SELL:

1963 Fleer MAURY WILLS RC #43 - PSA 7 NQ $89.00 ----> 84.8% of SMR

1963 Fleer JOE ADCOCK SP #46 - PSA 7 NQ $125.00 ----> 83.3% of SMR

1963 Fleer DON DRYSDALE #41 Dodgers - PSA 6 $37.00 ----> 82.2% of SMR

1963 Fleer Carl Yastrzemski #8 PSA 7 NM $75.00 ----> 78.9% of SMR

1963 FLEER #61 BOB GIBSON CARDINALS PSA 7 $88.00 ----> 97.8% of SMR

1963 Fleer #18 Don Lee PSA-7 $17.99 ----> 90.0% of SMR

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#206043 - 09/03/03 10:56 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
MW1
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John,

Welcome to the SGC forums!

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#206044 - 09/03/03 10:56 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


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I should add...Ive never searched for a PSA 7 or lower 1963 either. Mike...if you want strong prices....look at the PSA 9 commons. Some selling over $1100.00.

Most collectors looking for slabbed commons will only look at PSA 8 or better.

Overpriced at $1000+ in my opinion yes...but the deep pocket collectors could care less.

John

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#206045 - 09/03/03 11:25 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions *DELETED* [Re: Basilone]
MW1
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#206046 - 09/03/03 11:46 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


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Lets look at the Lee and Clinton individually. You were comparing 2 SGC commons cards to 34 PSA cards (commons, semi, and stars).

NJDolphan:

Lee SGC 92 $100 SMR $85.00 (this card is NOT a PSA 8.. the SMR is the average of PSA 8 and PSA 9 SMR)
Clinton SGC 88 $52.99 SMR $40.00

$152.99 in total bids and $125.00 in total SMR = 122.39% of SMR


PSA_Collector:

Lee PSA 8 $39.00 SMR: $40.00
Clinton PSA 8 $174.49 SMR: $40.00

$213.49 in total bids and $80.00 in total SMR = 254.15% of SMR



When comparing apples to apples...and the proper adjusted SMR (not giving SGC 92's the same SMR as SGC 88's) then there is no comparision.

John


Edited by Basilone (09/03/03 11:54 PM)

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#206047 - 09/04/03 12:06 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
MW1
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John,

Sorry, but that's some pretty seriously flawed statistical analysis on your part. If you use a "median" value for SGC 92s, then you've got to use the same "median" value for high-end PSA 8s. In essence, that would "bump" many of your PSA 8s up to a higher SMR value and a correspondingly lower percent of SMR. Otherwise, you are prorating the SGC graded cards according to high-end qualities while ignoring those same attributes on the PSA cards (i.e., would it be wrong to assume that your PSA 8 Clinton is a "high-end" card?). Just a hunch on my part, but I don't think you'd find much utility to your methods among conscientious statisticians.


NJDolphan eBay sales:

Lee SGC 92 $100 SMR $40.00
Clinton SGC 88 $52.99 SMR $40.00

$152.99 in total bids and $80.00 in total SMR = 191% of SMR


Then, throw in the fact that many of the PSA graded 1963 Fleer Hall of Famers realized a relatively low percent of SMR and you've basically got a statistical wash.

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#206048 - 09/04/03 12:12 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
MW1
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For reference:

The price realized for the Hall of Famers in the PSA group (Mays, Robinson, Yaz, Spahn, Clemente, Gibson) was only 86.5% of SMR.

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#206049 - 09/04/03 12:33 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
MW1
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John,

Here's two other useful SGC/PSA 1963 Fleer comparisons using Hall of Famers:

1963 Fleer #61 BOB GIBSON SGC 88 - $132.48

1963 Fleer #61 BOB GIBSON Cardinals PSA 8 NQ - $106


1963 Fleer #56 Roberto Clemente SGC 92 - $457.02

1963 Fleer #56 ROBERTO CLEMENTE Pirates PSA 8 - $313


(note: the SGC 88 Gibson auction includes a randomly selected PSA graded card. For all practical purposes, let's assume this "wishing well" prize is worth $5 or less)

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#206050 - 09/04/03 04:25 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
MW1
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John,

Shouldn't we also make other SGC forum members aware of the following eBay sales?


sixto_lezcano winning bids:

2741091242 -- $55.00 -- 1963 Fleer #6 Lou Clinton PSA 8

2744802322 -- $29.05 -- 1963 Fleer #18 Don Lee PSA 8

$84.05 in total bids and $80.00 in total SMR = 105% of SMR


So, even if we use your 122.39% of SMR for the SGC graded cards, Ron still did better the first time these two PSA graded cards sold. Being that you were both the buyer (sixto_lezcano) and seller (psa_collector) of these two cards on eBay, John, I would think that you would have made an honest effort to find some some of "average" or median value between the initial and latter transactions.

Other notable bids by sixto_lezcano:

2741090674 -- $247.50 -- 1963 Fleer #5 Willie Mays - PSA 8 (66% of SMR)
2744808333 -- $228.75 -- 1963 Fleer #5 Willie Mays - PSA 8 (61% of SMR)
2739177252 -- $150.00 -- 1963 Fleer #8 Carl Yastrzemski - PSA 8 (64% of SMR)
2741108949 -- $40.00 -- 1963 Fleer #41 Don Drysdale - PSA 8 (23% of SMR; reserve not met)
2738855292 -- $82.76 -- 1963 Fleer #61 Bob Gibson Cardinals - PSA 8 (47% of SMR)


(Note: to be perfectly fair to John, two of his earlier bids on key stars did exceed SMR including an Adcock by $31.50 and a Boyer by $15)

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#206051 - 09/04/03 06:05 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
njdolphins
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John

I did indeed win 2 cards from you. When I said that I am exclusively SGC, what I mean is that I will take your cards and have them reholdered. Since the population of SGC cards is miniscule when compared to PSA for 63 Fleer, I have the option of buying PSA cards or growing old and dying waiting for the SGC ones to be available.

Have a look at the auto signoff that comes after I end my message

Regards

Ron
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#206052 - 09/04/03 06:44 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


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Ah Michael

What you do not seem to realize is that a number of my hard to find common purchases were made via BUY IT NOW. In fact I stayed at work for an extra 2 hours one night just so I could bid on the aucitons when they came up one at a time. The original owner did not know the current market for the the hard to find 1963 Fleer PSA and had low BINs. That will explain the $55.00 for the Clinton....while you are going back in time..take a look at the 1963 PSA 8 auctions that occured just days before I bought all those PSA 8s via BIN. Heck there were stillPSA 8 auctions that were still active where the current bid was way higher than the buy it now I picked the cards up at.

Oh yea...I did lose money of the Adcock and Checklist. I belive I paid over $800.00 for the checklist and it sold for $766.00.

Also...please consider that I was offering the cream of the crop in regards to 1963 Fleer PSA 8s...all of the best cards in the set (except Koufax, Drysdale and #1 Barber). Since I was offering all these in the same evening..it brought some new "collectors" to the set and many bid on numerous cards, in addition, offering the convenience to seasoned 1963 collectors by giving them a chance to pick up nearly all of the tough cards in one night...thus a premium in the bidding.

In regards to buying low and selling high....I have no problem admitting that....please do not fault me for knowing the market for the set that I formally collected and selling when the market was favorable. As a collector...all I want is to break even if I ever decide to break up a set that Im collecting (which happens every so often).

Im not here to fight about this...my sales are over...Im happy....its time for me to start collecting some other players/sets.

NJDolphan- I sent your cards the next day after I received your payment. You should get them any day. Best of Luck with your SGC graded 1963 Fleer Set.

John


Edited by Basilone (09/04/03 06:53 AM)

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#206053 - 09/04/03 08:44 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
srs1a
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I think it is fair to say that there are certain markets that are immune to "holder-itis" and there are other markets where the label on the holder makes a very large difference.

MW1, it appears to me that your inventory is so smoking, so choice, so desirable, that the holder is irrelevent. In addition to the high grades, you continue to have absolutely outstanding examples for the grade. The '60 Yaz that you recently posted is yet another example of a GEORGOUS mint card in a SGC-96 holder...and you did very well with it. I know that aconte has also commented that in the redman world, the holder is not a large factor, either.

I think that the case that njdolphins outlined is markedly different -- his example was a tough common in a lightly collected set in SGC holders (1 registered set), but a heavily collected and active set in PSA holders (35 registered sets, 26 of them at >20% completion and 21 of them >50% completion). In this case, I think the holder did indeed hurt his auction results.

So, does the holder really matter? In my mind, the answer today is sometimes yes and sometimes no.

I have a good amount of experience crossing cards from PSA to SGC holders and know how that works. Given this knowledge, I am of the opinion that an overwhelming majority of cards in SGC holders will cross cleanly into PSA holders. If this does indeed hold true, then I would expect to see these differences become less and less as time passes.

my 2 cents


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#206054 - 09/04/03 09:02 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
theBobs
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I believe the Sixto purchases were on BINs, so not directly comparable to an auction without BIN. Including those sales might confuse the matter more than clarify it.

Not that it matters much as I don't believe these few sales are a relevant sample size from which to draw any meaningful conclusions -- although the numbers are fun to look at...

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#206055 - 09/04/03 09:10 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: srs1a]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


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srs1a,

Some very good points in your post.

I also think that Basilone sold some sweet 63's. Not to take anything
away from nj's sales.

aconte
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#206056 - 09/04/03 11:03 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: aconte]
vayank
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John --

I thought I had posted this already, but I guess it didn't take before my computer froze. Anyway, welcome to the boards and hope to read more of your posts...
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#206057 - 09/04/03 03:54 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions *DELETED* [Re: srs1a]
MW1
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#206058 - 09/04/03 04:00 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: theBobs]
MW1
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Quote:

I believe the Sixto purchases were on BINs, so not directly comparable to an auction without BIN. Including those sales might confuse the matter more than clarify it.




theBobs,

Only one of the seven cards purchased by "sixto_lezcano" (outlined in my previous post) was through the BIN option. The rest were auctions that all ran to completion. I think the numbers, even given a relatively small sample group, clearly demonstrate very little difference in value between SGC and PSA.

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#206059 - 09/04/03 06:14 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
srs1a
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Michael,

I don't want to argue with you, I think my statements were accurate. I am a SGC supporter and, as you know, have put a good number of my eggs in their basket. I want them to do well and I firmly believe that, over time, their auction prices will continue to climb because they offer a quality service. Maybe they have already achieved parity with PSA but in my opinion, they have not. We look at the same data and arrive at different conclusions -- I'm OK with that and I hope you are, as well.

Scott

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#206060 - 09/04/03 06:31 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: srs1a]
theBobs
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I didn't track the auctions, but remembered the BINs were low by the original seller.


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#206061 - 09/05/03 07:34 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: theBobs]
KLL
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Michael

Respectfully, I must disagree with you on this one. I think your analysis of this is a bit off.

I believe that the day will come where SGC cards will sell for similar prices as PSA cards. It just is not happening at this time. There are exceptions. SGC market share is much too small to be a factor at this time. WHen the day comes that SGC market share is comparable to PSA's, then you will see similar value for similar cards.

Those were nice cards. Some scans would be nice for any of the cards that make into SGC holders. 1963 Fleer is one year that looks exceptionally nice in SGC holders.

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#206062 - 09/05/03 11:35 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions *DELETED* [Re: KLL]
MW1
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#206063 - 09/05/03 03:36 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
wrigleyfield
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I have to agree with Srs1a and KLL on this one. My observation of the market from shows I attend and watching ebay auctions everyday is that PSA graded baseball cards command a higher price in most cases than SGC cards of the same grade. While I believe that SGC is slowly closing ground, there is still a noticable difference. While both sides can cite examples to make their case, I think a large scale statistical analysis of ebay transactions over a given period of time would show that PSA cards overall (stars and commons) bring in higher prices. I could be wrong, it is just my opinion.

I am not a PSA supporter as I have a strong preference for SGC cards for my collection, although I do buy PSA cards for crossover to SGC 88 or better. There is no question in my mind that SGC is far superior product, but that is a separate question from market place realities.
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#206064 - 09/05/03 03:40 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


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Quote:

the statistics clearly support my contention that there is little or no difference between SGC and PSA prices for "common" 1963 Fleer baseball




You should sell some then and get record prices....like I did.

Please list a SGC 92 Steve Barber #1....I will even bid on it.

John


Edited by Basilone (09/05/03 03:42 PM)

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#206065 - 09/05/03 08:52 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
jackstraw
Talkative?


Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 744
Loc: @ a Baseball Card Show

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another one bites the DUST or it sure does look like it?
_________________________
Ken Griffey Jr

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#206066 - 09/06/03 01:22 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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Quote:

You should sell some then and get record prices....like I did.



Record price. Singular. One common.

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#206067 - 09/07/03 08:02 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

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You might want to take a look at the Bobby Richardson and Billy O'Dell.

Among others.

Since Ive followed the 1963 market everyday for over a year...I am confident in my knowledge of the market......

So....list those SGC 88s....Im waiting to bid !!!

Let me know when you list them.

John


Edited by Basilone (09/07/03 08:04 PM)

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#206068 - 09/07/03 08:06 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
njdolphins
The Collectinator


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 333
Loc: Trimmed, Pressed, Power Erased

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John

Not for nothing but I noticed a grand total of zero bids placed by you on my SGC 88's.

Ron
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#206069 - 09/07/03 08:11 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: njdolphins]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

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I may start.....there is some value there.

John

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#206070 - 09/07/03 10:48 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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Quote:

You might want to take a look at the Bobby Richardson and Billy O'Dell. Among others.



The Richardson is high and possibly a record price. The O'Dell is not. I count over a dozen others (17 to be exact) that sold for below SMR.

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#206071 - 09/08/03 06:03 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

Offline

Michael,

I was talking about a record "high" price of the O'Dell card #66. The lowest POP PSA 8 in the set.

By the way..the SMR of this card in PSA 8 has been increasing over the past several months.

That is the reason I bought it via BIN for $175.00 ($25.00 over SMR). I sold it for $350 ish.

John

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#206072 - 09/08/03 01:17 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions *DELETED* [Re: Basilone]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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Post deleted by dena
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#206073 - 09/08/03 01:39 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

Offline

The O'Dell is the higest I remember. I wouldnt stake my life on it...there could of been one that sold higher...I just dont recall. Maybe you could you that pay website to look it up for me (that shows eBay transactions for the last 3 years).

I agree with you the HOF'ers sell below SMR....I would never buy a 60's Hall of Famer PSA 8 at SMR except maybe a 1965 Topps Whitey Ford in PSA 8. They are always available (as you know) on eBay.

As with most hobbies...scarcity and quality brings the bucks.

BTW..props to you on your Babe Ruth Auction Listing...I have to admit...that is one of the nicest layouts...that I have ever seen for an eBay auciton.

I would of thought the card would of sold for more though.

John

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#206074 - 09/08/03 03:40 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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John,

Thank you for the compliment on the Ruth auction.

I agree with you that a somewhat higher price should have been realized, but I think that two factors were working against me:

1. The proliferation of fake AAA and NASA graded Spalding cards on eBay -- i.e., those that are little more than paper scrap cut from Spalding baseball guides.

2. The SMR's random and unusually low prices for this issue

Over the past two years, we've recorded the following sales:

1926 Spalding - Babe Ruth - SGC 96 - $6,000
1926 Spalding - Babe Ruth - SGC 92 - $5,000
1926 Spalding - Babe Ruth - SGC 88 - $2,025
1926 Spalding - Mickey Cochrane - SGC 96 - $1,500
1926 Spalding - Tony Lazzeri - SGC 96 $1,000
1926 Spalding - Babe Ruth - PSA 9 - $5,000
1926 Spalding - Babe Ruth - PSA 9 - $5,100
1926 Spalding - Babe Ruth - PSA 9 - $3,750
1926 Spaldling - Babe Ruth - PSA 9 - $3,300
1926 Spalding - Babe Ruth - PSA 9 - $2,600
1926 Spalding - Walter Johnson - PSA 9 - $1,000

SMR Values:
Babe Ruth - PSA 8 $1,400
Babe Ruth - PSA 9 $2,750
Mickey Cochrane - PSA 9 $325 (should be labeled as a rookie)
Tony Lazzeri - PSA 9 $325 (should be labeled as a rookie)
Walter Johnson - PSA 9 $550

Where the SMR gets its prices from, I don't know, but one thing is certain -- the prices they list do not accurately reflect real market conditions. At any rate, I think the buyer got an excellent value on a very undervalued card. If he offered the card back to me at the same price, I'd buy it without hesitation.

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