Page 2 of 5 <12345>
Topic Options
#206040 - 09/03/03 10:06 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

Offline
Hey Guys...this is Basilone from the PSA Boards....I am the gentlemen who sold those 1963 Fleers.

I was quite happy with the results....the key to my sale was that included in the 34 cards were 13 out of the 14 Lowest POPs in the set and 9 out of the top 11 highest values SMR cards in the set. I was hoping to get my money back on the stars as they are listed every week on eBay. The key was the low pops which I was lucky to buy months ago when original owner sold them using below market Buy It Nows.

Anyways...thanks MW for the analysis...(I usually do that sort of thing on the other board).

John

Top
#206041 - 09/03/03 10:10 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

Offline
NJDolphins-

I may be mistaken...but did you not win several cards off of me? From you earlier post you said your were exclusively SGC? If so...fine by me...but I have seen you bid a number of PSA 1963 Fleers over the last several months.

I think your scan is fine....the upper left corner looks suspect from the scan but I cannot tell for sure. I can tell you this...many collectors just search for "1963 Fleer PSA (8,9,10)" Im sure there are some collectors out there that would of paid more for your card but simply did not realize it was out there. BTW...the template was nothing fancy...just a stock template from an auction listing service.

John Basilone


Edited by Basilone (09/03/03 10:22 PM)

Top
#206042 - 09/03/03 10:52 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: njdolphins]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

Offline
Ron,

You are quite correct. I was only comparing cards that possessed the grade NM/MT on the label. The only other card in the group that you sold that would equate to a "high end" PSA 8 would be the SGC 92 Don Lee (which also did better than the PSA graded cards as a percent of SMR).

I can appreciate what you are saying, but I don't think you can compare EM and NM cards from the 1960s to cards that are NM/MT or better. My experience is that they represent two different markets. I think if you take a look at PSA prices for similar condition cards, you will see little difference. In fact, for the second group below, my best guess is if all of the auctions were begun at $9.99 with no reserves, they would have been within 10% or so of your SGC/SMR percentages. I firmly believe that any hypothesis that proposes an idea of "vast PSA superiority" is based on vacuous and unverifiable data.

And if if one DID conclude that 1963 Fleer baseball in grades of less than NM/MT sold marginally better in PSA holders, the difference between the two companies is getting smaller each month. Within a year there will be little or no real (or perceived) difference.

Ron, I really don't think your prices are that unusual or "low." Instead, the most obvious problem (apparent in BOTH SGC and PSA sales of EM and NM cards) is that the SMR is not that accurate. Is there anyone here who couldn't point out dozens of prices (or perhaps more) where the SMR is much too high or consistently too low?

One final comment. For reasons of comparison, I don't think it is accurate to "extrapolate" an SGC half-grade price since PSA does not have half-point grades. An SGC 86 is most closely associated with a "high-end" PSA 7 -- not a midpoint "value" that lies half-way in-between a PSA 7 and PSA 8. Taking this interpretive element into account, some of your SGC percentages would be much higher.


Examples from eBay (last 30 days):

Sold

1963 63 Fleer Ralph Terry PSA 6 (Ex-Mt) $10.67 ----> 88.9% of SMR

1963 Fleer checklist PSA 5 $136.50 ----> 78% of SMR

1963 Fleer-#42 Sandy Koufax PSA 7 nr mint $97.00 ----> 55.4% of SMR

1963 Fleer #22 Jim Kaat - PSA 7 $15.50 ----> 55.4% of SMR

1963 FLEER PSA 7 Smoky Burgess #55 - Pirates $21.71 ----> 109% of SMR



DID NOT SELL:

1963 Fleer MAURY WILLS RC #43 - PSA 7 NQ $89.00 ----> 84.8% of SMR

1963 Fleer JOE ADCOCK SP #46 - PSA 7 NQ $125.00 ----> 83.3% of SMR

1963 Fleer DON DRYSDALE #41 Dodgers - PSA 6 $37.00 ----> 82.2% of SMR

1963 Fleer Carl Yastrzemski #8 PSA 7 NM $75.00 ----> 78.9% of SMR

1963 FLEER #61 BOB GIBSON CARDINALS PSA 7 $88.00 ----> 97.8% of SMR

1963 Fleer #18 Don Lee PSA-7 $17.99 ----> 90.0% of SMR

Top
#206043 - 09/03/03 10:56 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

Offline
John,

Welcome to the SGC forums!

Top
#206044 - 09/03/03 10:56 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

Offline

I should add...Ive never searched for a PSA 7 or lower 1963 either. Mike...if you want strong prices....look at the PSA 9 commons. Some selling over $1100.00.

Most collectors looking for slabbed commons will only look at PSA 8 or better.

Overpriced at $1000+ in my opinion yes...but the deep pocket collectors could care less.

John

Top
#206045 - 09/03/03 11:25 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions *DELETED* [Re: Basilone]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

Offline
Post deleted by dena
Top
#206046 - 09/03/03 11:46 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

Offline
Lets look at the Lee and Clinton individually. You were comparing 2 SGC commons cards to 34 PSA cards (commons, semi, and stars).

NJDolphan:

Lee SGC 92 $100 SMR $85.00 (this card is NOT a PSA 8.. the SMR is the average of PSA 8 and PSA 9 SMR)
Clinton SGC 88 $52.99 SMR $40.00

$152.99 in total bids and $125.00 in total SMR = 122.39% of SMR


PSA_Collector:

Lee PSA 8 $39.00 SMR: $40.00
Clinton PSA 8 $174.49 SMR: $40.00

$213.49 in total bids and $80.00 in total SMR = 254.15% of SMR



When comparing apples to apples...and the proper adjusted SMR (not giving SGC 92's the same SMR as SGC 88's) then there is no comparision.

John


Edited by Basilone (09/03/03 11:54 PM)

Top
#206047 - 09/04/03 12:06 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

Offline
John,

Sorry, but that's some pretty seriously flawed statistical analysis on your part. If you use a "median" value for SGC 92s, then you've got to use the same "median" value for high-end PSA 8s. In essence, that would "bump" many of your PSA 8s up to a higher SMR value and a correspondingly lower percent of SMR. Otherwise, you are prorating the SGC graded cards according to high-end qualities while ignoring those same attributes on the PSA cards (i.e., would it be wrong to assume that your PSA 8 Clinton is a "high-end" card?). Just a hunch on my part, but I don't think you'd find much utility to your methods among conscientious statisticians.


NJDolphan eBay sales:

Lee SGC 92 $100 SMR $40.00
Clinton SGC 88 $52.99 SMR $40.00

$152.99 in total bids and $80.00 in total SMR = 191% of SMR


Then, throw in the fact that many of the PSA graded 1963 Fleer Hall of Famers realized a relatively low percent of SMR and you've basically got a statistical wash.

Top
#206048 - 09/04/03 12:12 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

Offline
For reference:

The price realized for the Hall of Famers in the PSA group (Mays, Robinson, Yaz, Spahn, Clemente, Gibson) was only 86.5% of SMR.

Top
#206049 - 09/04/03 12:33 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

Offline
John,

Here's two other useful SGC/PSA 1963 Fleer comparisons using Hall of Famers:

1963 Fleer #61 BOB GIBSON SGC 88 - $132.48

1963 Fleer #61 BOB GIBSON Cardinals PSA 8 NQ - $106


1963 Fleer #56 Roberto Clemente SGC 92 - $457.02

1963 Fleer #56 ROBERTO CLEMENTE Pirates PSA 8 - $313


(note: the SGC 88 Gibson auction includes a randomly selected PSA graded card. For all practical purposes, let's assume this "wishing well" prize is worth $5 or less)

Top
Page 2 of 5 <12345>


Moderator:  EARLSWORLD 
Hop to:
Who's Online
0 registered and 4 anonymous users online.
Newest Members
vwxyz{570399, nopqrs004715, tjf092071, jakerazzle1, rstuvw197344
1961 Registered Users

Generated in 0.017 seconds in which 0 seconds were spent on a total of 15 queries. Zlib compression disabled.