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#206050 - 09/04/03 04:25 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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John,

Shouldn't we also make other SGC forum members aware of the following eBay sales?


sixto_lezcano winning bids:

2741091242 -- $55.00 -- 1963 Fleer #6 Lou Clinton PSA 8

2744802322 -- $29.05 -- 1963 Fleer #18 Don Lee PSA 8

$84.05 in total bids and $80.00 in total SMR = 105% of SMR


So, even if we use your 122.39% of SMR for the SGC graded cards, Ron still did better the first time these two PSA graded cards sold. Being that you were both the buyer (sixto_lezcano) and seller (psa_collector) of these two cards on eBay, John, I would think that you would have made an honest effort to find some some of "average" or median value between the initial and latter transactions.

Other notable bids by sixto_lezcano:

2741090674 -- $247.50 -- 1963 Fleer #5 Willie Mays - PSA 8 (66% of SMR)
2744808333 -- $228.75 -- 1963 Fleer #5 Willie Mays - PSA 8 (61% of SMR)
2739177252 -- $150.00 -- 1963 Fleer #8 Carl Yastrzemski - PSA 8 (64% of SMR)
2741108949 -- $40.00 -- 1963 Fleer #41 Don Drysdale - PSA 8 (23% of SMR; reserve not met)
2738855292 -- $82.76 -- 1963 Fleer #61 Bob Gibson Cardinals - PSA 8 (47% of SMR)


(Note: to be perfectly fair to John, two of his earlier bids on key stars did exceed SMR including an Adcock by $31.50 and a Boyer by $15)

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#206051 - 09/04/03 06:05 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
njdolphins
The Collectinator


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 333
Loc: Trimmed, Pressed, Power Erased

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John

I did indeed win 2 cards from you. When I said that I am exclusively SGC, what I mean is that I will take your cards and have them reholdered. Since the population of SGC cards is miniscule when compared to PSA for 63 Fleer, I have the option of buying PSA cards or growing old and dying waiting for the SGC ones to be available.

Have a look at the auto signoff that comes after I end my message

Regards

Ron
_________________________

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#206052 - 09/04/03 06:44 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

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Ah Michael

What you do not seem to realize is that a number of my hard to find common purchases were made via BUY IT NOW. In fact I stayed at work for an extra 2 hours one night just so I could bid on the aucitons when they came up one at a time. The original owner did not know the current market for the the hard to find 1963 Fleer PSA and had low BINs. That will explain the $55.00 for the Clinton....while you are going back in time..take a look at the 1963 PSA 8 auctions that occured just days before I bought all those PSA 8s via BIN. Heck there were stillPSA 8 auctions that were still active where the current bid was way higher than the buy it now I picked the cards up at.

Oh yea...I did lose money of the Adcock and Checklist. I belive I paid over $800.00 for the checklist and it sold for $766.00.

Also...please consider that I was offering the cream of the crop in regards to 1963 Fleer PSA 8s...all of the best cards in the set (except Koufax, Drysdale and #1 Barber). Since I was offering all these in the same evening..it brought some new "collectors" to the set and many bid on numerous cards, in addition, offering the convenience to seasoned 1963 collectors by giving them a chance to pick up nearly all of the tough cards in one night...thus a premium in the bidding.

In regards to buying low and selling high....I have no problem admitting that....please do not fault me for knowing the market for the set that I formally collected and selling when the market was favorable. As a collector...all I want is to break even if I ever decide to break up a set that Im collecting (which happens every so often).

Im not here to fight about this...my sales are over...Im happy....its time for me to start collecting some other players/sets.

NJDolphan- I sent your cards the next day after I received your payment. You should get them any day. Best of Luck with your SGC graded 1963 Fleer Set.

John


Edited by Basilone (09/04/03 06:53 AM)

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#206053 - 09/04/03 08:44 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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I think it is fair to say that there are certain markets that are immune to "holder-itis" and there are other markets where the label on the holder makes a very large difference.

MW1, it appears to me that your inventory is so smoking, so choice, so desirable, that the holder is irrelevent. In addition to the high grades, you continue to have absolutely outstanding examples for the grade. The '60 Yaz that you recently posted is yet another example of a GEORGOUS mint card in a SGC-96 holder...and you did very well with it. I know that aconte has also commented that in the redman world, the holder is not a large factor, either.

I think that the case that njdolphins outlined is markedly different -- his example was a tough common in a lightly collected set in SGC holders (1 registered set), but a heavily collected and active set in PSA holders (35 registered sets, 26 of them at >20% completion and 21 of them >50% completion). In this case, I think the holder did indeed hurt his auction results.

So, does the holder really matter? In my mind, the answer today is sometimes yes and sometimes no.

I have a good amount of experience crossing cards from PSA to SGC holders and know how that works. Given this knowledge, I am of the opinion that an overwhelming majority of cards in SGC holders will cross cleanly into PSA holders. If this does indeed hold true, then I would expect to see these differences become less and less as time passes.

my 2 cents


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#206054 - 09/04/03 09:02 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: Basilone]
theBobs
Hobbyist


Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 40

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I believe the Sixto purchases were on BINs, so not directly comparable to an auction without BIN. Including those sales might confuse the matter more than clarify it.

Not that it matters much as I don't believe these few sales are a relevant sample size from which to draw any meaningful conclusions -- although the numbers are fun to look at...

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#206055 - 09/04/03 09:10 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: srs1a]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

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srs1a,

Some very good points in your post.

I also think that Basilone sold some sweet 63's. Not to take anything
away from nj's sales.

aconte
_________________________

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#206056 - 09/04/03 11:03 AM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: aconte]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

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John --

I thought I had posted this already, but I guess it didn't take before my computer froze. Anyway, welcome to the boards and hope to read more of your posts...
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#206057 - 09/04/03 03:54 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions *DELETED* [Re: srs1a]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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Post deleted by dena
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#206058 - 09/04/03 04:00 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: theBobs]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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Quote:

I believe the Sixto purchases were on BINs, so not directly comparable to an auction without BIN. Including those sales might confuse the matter more than clarify it.




theBobs,

Only one of the seven cards purchased by "sixto_lezcano" (outlined in my previous post) was through the BIN option. The rest were auctions that all ran to completion. I think the numbers, even given a relatively small sample group, clearly demonstrate very little difference in value between SGC and PSA.

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#206059 - 09/04/03 06:14 PM Re: Analysis: Price Of Recently Ended PSA versus SGC auctions [Re: MW1]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

Offline
Michael,

I don't want to argue with you, I think my statements were accurate. I am a SGC supporter and, as you know, have put a good number of my eggs in their basket. I want them to do well and I firmly believe that, over time, their auction prices will continue to climb because they offer a quality service. Maybe they have already achieved parity with PSA but in my opinion, they have not. We look at the same data and arrive at different conclusions -- I'm OK with that and I hope you are, as well.

Scott

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