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#233004 - 10/09/03 12:29 PM OK, now I've seen everything
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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That highly regarded eBAY seller -- libertyforall, appears to have teamed up with PRO and they are now grading his magazine cut-outs. I wonder if he is behind on his electric bill and AAA grading is no longer able to operate out of his basement.

As they say, birds of a feather...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2758414615&category=16271

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#233005 - 10/13/03 09:53 PM Re: OK, now I've seen everything [Re: srs1a]
MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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You know what? I question whether the 1954 Topps paper inserts that libertyforall is cutting up are even from the original SI #1 issues. Instead, based on the sheer number that he has had for sale in the past year, I think there's a distinct possibility that these scraps of paper (his trademark) are from the REPRINTS of SI's #1 magazine

Check it out. They can be purchased in large quantities for $149.95 each on this website (see second to last item in list).

Or, you can generally find them on eBay for approximately the same price.

Assuming one already has a pair of scissors, a tidy profit is not unrealistic. Libertyforall generally sells the set of cutouts as singles and grosses between $500 and $1000 per cut up issue.

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#233006 - 10/15/03 08:44 AM Re: OK, now I've seen everything [Re: MW1]
bhl2359
Just got here


Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 9

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Quote:

You know what? I question whether the 1954 Topps paper inserts that libertyforall is cutting up are even from the original SI #1 issues. Instead, based on the sheer number that he has had for sale in the past year, I think there's a distinct possibility that these scraps of paper (his trademark) are from the REPRINTS of SI's #1 magazine

Check it out. They can be purchased in large quantities for $149.95 each on this website (see second to last item in list).




I'm not sure if you actually read the link for the Sports Illustrated #1 , but it clearly states that they are authentic copies from the first press run in 1954.

Please clarify: are you accusing SI of selling reprints as authentic?

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#233007 - 10/15/03 04:20 PM Re: OK, now I've seen everything [Re: bhl2359]
MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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No, you are mistaken. It does not say "first" press run. Here's the exact language that is used in the advertisement:

"An actual August 16, 1954, press copy of the very first edition of Sports Illustrated."

A little over a decade ago, I was contacted by a wholesaler and offered large quantities of this same RE-ISSUED SI #1 for approximately $99 each.

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#233008 - 10/15/03 06:47 PM Re: OK, now I've seen everything [Re: MW1]
bhl2359
Just got here


Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 9

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You're kidding, right? In that context, they obviously mean "copy" to mean "One specimen or example of a printed text or picture: an autographed copy of a novel."

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=copy

I have owned one of these magazines, which was purchased directly from SI. They come with a Certificate of Authenticity and the COA affirms that they are from the first press run in 1954. If they were selling them as copies, "An imitation or reproduction of an original; a duplicate: a copy of a painting; made two copies of the letter.", they would label them as reproductions. But they aren't.


Edited by bhl2359 (10/15/03 09:50 PM)

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#233009 - 10/15/03 09:05 PM Re: OK, now I've seen everything [Re: bhl2359]
MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
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Assuming you do not have one of the reprinted SI #1 Gift Issues, my understanding is as follows:

All of the original SI #1 print run were sold within a short period of time following the magazine's original release date (most sources agree that 90 percent of the issue were sold on the first day of sale). Some time later, there was another group of magazines that were printed but never distributed in the same manner as the first (in a white envelope). Instead, they were stored in a warehouse. In the late 1980s, these magazines were sold in large quantities to dealers and collectors across the country.

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#233010 - 10/15/03 09:49 PM Re: OK, now I've seen everything [Re: MW1]
bhl2359
Just got here


Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 9

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I don't mean to be argumentative, but inthe second link you provided, the magazine is clearly labeled a reprint, and only costs $32.95, including a hardcover book and a 26 issue paid subscription to SI. This is clearly different than the magazine in the first link you provided, which costs $149.95 and is described as "An actual August 16, 1954, press copy of the very first edition of Sports Illustrated". What that means to me is that these were magazines printed in 1954. Why SI still has them over 50 years later, I don't know. But I do know that it is highly unlikely that a company like SI is going to perpetrate an ongoing fraud without getting caught.
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#233011 - 10/15/03 10:22 PM Re: OK, now I've seen everything [Re: bhl2359]
MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
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First, I have no idea which edition you own. I merely suggested it was either one or the other. Second, I never wrote that Sports Illustrated was perpetuating a fraud. I'm simply providing some historical background so that you better understand that the thousands of Gem Mint Sports Illustrated #1s that are finding their way into the hobby are NOT the same magazines that were sold back in 1954. I believe that they were printed later and were NOT part of the first press run.
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#233012 - 10/15/03 10:24 PM Re: OK, now I've seen everything [Re: bhl2359]
MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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Quote:

They come with a Certificate of Authenticity and the COA affirms that they are from the first press run in 1954.



Question -- can you post an image of your COA to confirm this?

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#233013 - 10/16/03 03:53 AM Re: OK, now I've seen everything [Re: MW1]
the1nderer
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 18

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Quote:

I believe that they were printed later and were NOT part of the first press run.




What is "later"? If we assume the original press run was within the month or so preceeding August 14, 1954 - do you believe these were printed sometime later that year as a second print run? Or do you think SI ran the presses at a much later date when these became collectible? If the former, I see no issue for concern - magazines have second (and third, etc.) print runs all the time, and it's not like books where the difference between first and second editions can be significant in value. If the latter, I would like to see evidence that SI is marketing what you feel are later year reproductions as originals.

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