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#233327 - 10/09/03 07:29 PM GAI Supporters be proud???
njdolphins
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Registered: 05/30/03
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Dear All

I could use the tops of these cards to open beer bottles with. A large lot of 1963 Fleer GAI 8's and almost all look pretty brutal. The URL below will show you 4 of the "beauties".

1963 Fleer 3 Blind Mice Variation Cards

Ron
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#233328 - 10/10/03 12:13 AM Re: GAI Supporters be proud??? [Re: njdolphins]
MW1
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The winnning bidder on those fine lots might also want to consider placing a bid in this auction.

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#233329 - 10/10/03 06:02 AM Re: GAI Supporters be proud??? [Re: MW1]
grilloj39
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/23/03
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I don't know how much GAI factors "diamond cut" into its grading. My understanding is that SGC is a "stickler" for the diamond cut, whereas they may be not such as "sticker" in other areas (i.e. centering).

However, as one who believes in the overall presentation of a card should factor into its overall grade. I don't think these cards should be a 8 either.
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Always looking for GAI,SGC,PSA vintage Hockey and Boxing.

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#233330 - 10/10/03 06:53 AM Re: GAI Supporters be proud??? [Re: grilloj39]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
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Grillo,

You're alright in my books. You call it as you see it.

aconte
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#233331 - 10/10/03 06:59 AM Re: GAI Supporters be proud??? [Re: grilloj39]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
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Oh no grillo -- are we going to get into rough cuts again!

Ron, I'd appreciate your comment on the cards...but here is what I see.

White is a miserable card -- I think it is definately OC R/L. The top diamond cut plus the L side rough cut say that this card is not an 8...or even 8-OC. It should be in a 7 holder at best.

Oliver and Piersall look very similar to me -- the R/L centering is close, but may just make 65/35. They got hit with the diamond cut on the top, but not as bad as Mr. White. They both have a rough cut side. IMHO, these guys are close to being technially an 8...with miserable eye appeal. My reasoning is that I think that their centering is barely OK for an 8...and no deductions for a rough cut.
Bottom of the barrel 8's at the best. That being said, I don't think that thes cards would ever get into a SGC-88 holder...it's probably a toss-up for an 86.

I don't find the Demeter objectionable. It looks like an OK 8 -- nothing stellar, but not horrible either.

Scott

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#233332 - 10/10/03 07:50 AM Re: GAI Supporters be proud??? [Re: srs1a]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
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I must have a different understanding of terminology from the rest of the world ... so I'd appreciate some clarification ... especially since we have pictures to illustrate.

I've always defined "diamond cut" as being the card's picture being at odds with the card's cut consistently and on all four sides. The more extreme the mismatch, the more the picture appears as a "diamond" in relation to the cut.

However, in each of the four cards being discussed, I see three sides in which the edges of the picture are perfectly parallel to the edge of the cut. And in all four cards, only the top edge is not parallel with the picture.

To me, this is evidence of a "miscut" (as opposed to a diamond cut) ... or worse, a trim job.

No?


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#233333 - 10/10/03 08:19 AM Re: GAI Supporters be proud??? [Re: srs1a]
njdolphins
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Scott

I will leave my comments at this

I have an SGC 86 White, SGC 80 Demeter, SGC 88 Piersall in my collection. I would not buy any of these cards irrespective of price as I believe that all of mine present as well or better than those offered here.

As far as rough cuts go, the Piersall is just ridiculous. Looks like a caterpiller is living on the left edge. I don't consider rough cuts of this level of severity to be "natural state" for 63 Fleer since I MIGHT observe this in 1/2 of 1% of the total population.

Demeter is the best card but I still don't think it's an SGC88 and personally I really hate it when my card looks slanted be it miscut or diamond cut.

Ron
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#233334 - 10/10/03 12:45 PM Re: GAI Supporters be proud??? [Re: deadlyembrace]
MW1
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DE,

Right you are. The phrase "diamond cut" has been largely relegated to idiomatic hobbyspeak. In its proper usage, "diamond cut" does indeed define a card where all four edges are oblique to the inner picture. "Miscut" would be a far more accurate term.

While we're on the subject, the phrase "eye appeal" is another figure of speech that has found widespread favor among oblivious baseball card grammarians. In this case, the proper terminology would be "visual appeal." The eye is a conduit for sensory perception but it is not, in and of itself, one of our four senses (sight is). In a literal sense, someone or something cannot appeal to one's eye. But it can appeal to one's vision; hence, "visual appeal." An adverbial context makes this issue even more clear. A woman can be "visually appealing" but she cannot be "eye appealing."

On a somewhat related tangent, I am reminded of a famous linguist's humorous explanation of the often-misused word "flammable":

"An oddity, chiefly useful in saving lives. The common word meaning 'combustible' is inflammable. But some people are thrown off by the in- and think inflammable means 'not combustible.' For this reason, trucks carrying gasoline or explosives are now marked FLAMMABLE. Unless you are operating such a truck and hence are concerned with the safety of children and illiterates, use inflammable."

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#233335 - 10/10/03 12:47 PM Re: GAI Supporters be proud??? [Re: njdolphins]
MW1
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Quote:

Looks like a caterpillar is living on the left edge.



That's funny! There's no question that a caterpillar has abandoned its leafy home and taken up residence elsewhere.

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#233336 - 10/10/03 01:52 PM Re: GAI Supporters be proud??? [Re: MW1]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX

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Hm-m-m-m ...

I feel an odd sensation in my leg ... almost like it's being pulled ...

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#233337 - 10/10/03 02:37 PM Re: GAI Supporters be proud??? [Re: deadlyembrace]
MW1
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DE,

I can assure you that I'm being completely serious. Language and grammar are two of my hobbies. I know. Who'd a thunk it? Please see the definition below:

inflammable (în-flàm´e-bel) adjective
1.Easily ignited and capable of burning rapidly; flammable. See Usage Note at flammable*
2.Quickly or easily aroused to strong emotion; excitable.

[Middle English, liable to inflammation, from Medieval Latin ìnflammâbilis, from Latin ìnflammâre, to inflame. See inflame.]

*Usage Note: Historically, flammable and inflammable mean the same thing. However, the presence of the prefix in- has misled many people into assuming that inflammable means "not flammable" or "noncombustible." In the circumstances, it is therefore advisable to use only flammable in contexts imparting warnings or on product labels, where a misinterpretation might have more serious consequences for the reader than an etymological mistake would deserve.

Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition © 2001 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

...and you're 100% correct about the idiom "diamond cut."

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#233338 - 10/12/03 02:29 PM Re: GAI Supporters be proud??? [Re: MW1]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
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I agree NJDolphans...I would not touch any of those cards. Also in regards to a rough cut...they are very uncommon with PSA 8s...I cannot remember a 1963 Fleer with a rough cut that bad.

Its one thing if we are talking about 1954 topps...but the rough cut on that card really takes away from the card.

John

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