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#235190 - 10/24/03 08:18 AM Re: 1975 Carew BVG 8.5 pic [Re: estang]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX

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Hi estang --

Could you expand on your statement about cards cut from sheets? I'm not sure I understand the reluctance to purchase these cards. My knee-jerk reaction is that, as long as the card is real and cut to the exact dimensions of those coming from the factory, I would consider it an unaltered, valid card. But I'd like to hear other opinions on this.

Note that, since it grades Post cereal cards, by definition SGC grades sheet cut cards as well ... (although, this may be distorting your central point a little since that is the only way those cards made it to the market place).

I am also aware of some VERY highly graded Ramleys (96s and a 98 or two) that were cut from sheets and graded by SGC in the "old label" days.

Finally, here is an example of a PSA-graded, sheet-cut card that is currently being auctioned on Ebay ...

Nolan Ryan PSA 10 - sheet cut card


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#235191 - 10/24/03 08:29 AM Re: 1975 Carew BVG 8.5 pic [Re: deadlyembrace]
jackstraw
Talkative?


Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 744
Loc: @ a Baseball Card Show

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deadlyembrace,
i hope you don't mind me responding. i believe the reason collectors veiw a card like the carew as an altered card is that the cutting techniques back in 75 were far worse than today. if you ever look at an opc card from the 70's it looks like it was cut with a chain saw not a laser like today. it's a debate that will never end and i guess it goes under the topic of if your happy then thats all that matters.

john
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#235192 - 10/24/03 08:55 AM Re: 1975 Carew BVG 8.5 pic [Re: jackstraw]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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DE, I agree with Bouffard's sentiments. I think there are certain cards where it is important -- Gretzky's OPC Rookie for one. High grade ones in Beckett holders have very smooth edges -- very rarely do you see one in another holder that looks like these. It's an important card and, as Bouffard says, many OPC's look like they got hit with a weed whacker...so people care.
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#235193 - 10/24/03 09:14 AM Re: 1975 Carew BVG 8.5 pic [Re: srs1a]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX

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Bouffard and srs1a --

So ... if a very highly graded Gretzky's OPC Rookie in a Beckett holder (for which a sheet cut job is suspected/probable) were submitted to SGC as a cross-over candidate, would SGC reject it or cross it over?

And if they DO cross it over, should they have?

Is it acceptible on a card-by-card basis where important cards such as the Gretzky's Rookie should be kept "pure"?

Just curious ...



I guess I'm confused by the entire topic and the various grading companies' approach to it. If I could find a 1962 Topps #1 Roger Maris SGC 96 that I KNEW was cut from a 1962 sheet ... I don't think I'd hesitate in trying to acquire it.



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#235194 - 10/24/03 09:18 AM Re: 1975 Carew BVG 8.5 pic [Re: deadlyembrace]
jackstraw
Talkative?


Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 744
Loc: @ a Baseball Card Show

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they would reveiw it and probably reject. i know they are aware of the sheet cut card and have a process to determine whether it is cut from a sheet in 2003 or factory cut in 1979.

john
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#235195 - 10/24/03 09:46 AM Re: 1975 Carew BVG 8.5 pic [Re: jackstraw]
estang
(S)uper Collector


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 495

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Mr. 62,

I don't have any issues that it is possible it could be cut from a sheet. I posted it in reference to someone mentioning an example of the 75 Carew in SGC 96 on the Set Registry (no scan there).

I have a run of Topps Carew BVG 8.5 from 1968, 1970, 1972, 1975 and 1978. I have a BVG 9.0 from 1977. I just checked the sub-grading and examined the cards under a bright light. After doing so, the 75 Carew does have flawless edges and corners (once again the centering is 9.0 but the edges/corners are 9.5).

Interestly the card that comes closest to perfecet edges and centering is the 78 Carew, which was purchased from the same ebay seller. It grades out at centering 9.5, corners 9.0, edges 9.5 and 8.0 surface. I do see an imperfection on the surface with some noticable but very light indentations on the back surface.

I cannot say definitely that they were cut from a sheet, but it doesn't really matter to me.

If someone tells me how using a 10x loupe I can confirm for sure, I'll go and purchase one (I've been thinking of doing that anyway).

I'd still like to understand from someone what type of machinery is being used and if it is known that there is a single company doing this on behalf of a group of dealers.

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#235196 - 10/24/03 10:02 AM Re: 1975 Carew BVG 8.5 pic [Re: deadlyembrace]
stanthemanfan
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 366

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DE

I think there is an enormous difference between an original pack distributed card and a recently sheet cut of any vintage sports issue. Owning a 1962 Roger Maris SGC 96 that has remained undamaged for nearly 42 years should not be considered the equal of a 2003 cut card from an original 1962 sheet.

I don't know the extent of sheet cut vintage cards - but if it becomes a growing segment in the hobby, I hope the grading companies would indicate a sheet cut on the label (on the line that SGC uses for Rookie or High #). I personally would either not purchase a sheet cut card or bid a significantly reduced amount compared to what I would consider an original issued card.

Just my opinion.

STMF

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#235197 - 10/24/03 11:11 AM Re: 1975 Schmidt [Re: stanthemanfan]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1895
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

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I saw a BVG 75 Schmidt that was graded 8.5 or 9.5 on ebay a few
months ago. It was perfect looking. Centering was awesome and
it looked great. I thought about bidding but did not. Is there a chance
a card like this was sheet cut? The edges looked razor. I never
saw that on the 75 Schmidt.

aconte
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#235198 - 10/24/03 06:00 PM Re: 1975 Schmidt [Re: aconte]
gemint
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 25

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I think the reluctance to recognize sheet cut cards is due to the fact that they underwent a non factory alteration. It's not much different from taking an oversized card and trimming it down to size. I personally would not want sheet cut cards in my collection.

Boufford - I too like the 1976 set. It was also the first set I collected as a kid. I remember getting my first ATAS (Gehrig) and wondering why there was an old card in my pack. Perhaps someday I'll build a graded set from that year but my focus now is on building sets from the 60s.

Good luck with your venture.

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#235199 - 10/24/03 08:32 PM Re: 1975 Schmidt [Re: gemint]
jackstraw
Talkative?


Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 744
Loc: @ a Baseball Card Show

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gemint,
nice to hear from you over here. i regularly look at your 69 set(i'm guessing that is the year of your birth because its mine?)(i also enjoy the pictures and notes i wish sgc would add that feature). someday i will start that set once the mike shannons of the world come out of gaspipes vending stash he also has about 40,000 76's but it seems he has taking a liken to the horses and not so much cards lately.
i can for some reason remember the micky cochrene? i remember saying to myself that guy must be old.two more cards that remind me of a day gone bye is the willie horton and the aaron rb.
i have added the watson and hunter which is probably the third hardest hof'er in mint grade(mo). i would consider the brett the hardest next being the winfield and if rose ever makes it i would put that in the top 4 ahead of the hunter. also on that list of tough hof'ers is that rotten lefty grove for some reason it just doesn't grade that high ?and from the list of future hof'ers is mr torre forget about it. i have never seen a nice copy of that card.
have a good weekend
john


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