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#257965 - 11/10/03 06:36 AM Auction results - comments/insights wanted
njdolphins
The Collectinator


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 333
Loc: Trimmed, Pressed, Power Erased

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Dear All

Just ended another round of auctions last night and it's hard not to be dissappointed. Just focusing on the star cards from 63 Fleer that I was moving, here is what the results were.

Mays(84): Sold for $80, SMR for a "7" = $185

Gibson (86): Sold for $50, SMR for a "7" = $90, an "8" = $175

Drysdale (86): Sold for $60, SMR for a "7" = $75, an "8" = $175

Robinson (86): Sold for $71, SMR for a "7" = $95, an "8" = $235

Adcock (86): No opening bid@$99.99, SMR for a "7" = $150, an "8" = $300

What conclusions do you all draw from this??

Is SMR so WRONG that my 86's in aggregate sold for 69% of SMR for a "7"??

Is there still a significant premium on PSA graded cards relative to SGC??

Do collectors just view 86 as a "7"??

Did my strategy of start the bid at the absolute lowest I would accept for the cards, which was generally 50% of SMR for a 7, scare people away?

All of the above??

Your insights are most welcome.

Regards

Ron

P.S. Anybody want a nice Joe Adcock card from the 63 Fleer set?


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#257966 - 11/10/03 06:52 AM Re: Auction results - comments/insights wanted [Re: njdolphins]
grilloj39
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 215
Loc: San Antonio, TX

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NJDolphins...first I think the SMR is a joke. I don't know how SGC graded cards can be measured with a CU/PSA publication that is simply a "conflict of interest." Do I use the SMR? I must honestly admit yes, but I try to take into consideration past sales on similar products and I try to place my bids under the stated price in the SMR.

second, if one accepts the agrument that the SMR is a valid, accurate publication...part of the reason people shop on e-bay is to find "great bargains" over mail-order, over-the-counter dealer prices. Some of your results were disappointing, yet some were very close to the SMR that you reference.

JG
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Always looking for GAI,SGC,PSA vintage Hockey and Boxing.

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#257967 - 11/10/03 07:04 AM Re: Auction results - comments/insights wanted [Re: grilloj39]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

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I have been noticing a general trend lately with eBay that sales are lower than they were in months before. I have not been following sales of sports cards that were issued after 1930 so I cannot comment on your sales specifically.

Maybe those issues that you mentioned are targeted more for the PSA Set Registry folks and therefore buyers were factoring in the possibility that the card would not crossover to the grade that they needed.

Have you looked at completed auctions for comparable material to see what the results were? Maybe it is just a soft market right now.

Greg

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#257968 - 11/10/03 07:06 AM Re: Auction results - comments/insights wanted [Re: njdolphins]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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Ron, another tough one.

To answer one of your questions, I think that many collectors view an "86" as a "7"... but less desirable than a PSA-7 because it will cost $15 or so to get it into the "right" holder. Lost in this line of thinking is a reasonable probability that the 86 could actually end up in a PSA-8 holder (I am one for one landing an 86 into a PSA-8 holder...for my PSA Banks Player set)

Then, to add insult to injury, I think that SMR is a bit out of whack for 7's -- I think that, on average, you are lucky to get 70-80% of SMR for 7's.

Using my magic formula above, I think that a reasonable expectation for an 86 is 75% of a PSA-7 (to account for SMR's problems) minus $15 (x-over charge). You may wish to consider using PSA's x-over service for choice 86's. Even if you only hit on one of three, it would probably still be a money maker.

Scott


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#257969 - 11/10/03 07:18 AM Re: Auction results - comments/insights wanted [Re: njdolphins]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

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Ron-

As you know...I know a thing or two about the Fleers. It is my opinion that you would of received some higher bids...especially...the Adcock if it was in a PSA holder.

The problem is not the cards....its just there is not a market out there for SGC 1963 Fleer cards in that grade. Those cards are out there in PSA slabs so it doesnt make sense to guy to buy the SGC card and reslab over to PSA.

Im really surprised about the Adcock.....was it closer to a PSA 7 or PSA 8 in your opinion?

I know you love your set...but if you ever decide to sell it...you might want to consider crossing it over.

John


Edited by Basilone (11/10/03 07:21 AM)

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#257970 - 11/10/03 07:24 AM Re: Auction results - comments/insights wanted [Re: Basilone]
njdolphins
The Collectinator


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 333
Loc: Trimmed, Pressed, Power Erased

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WOW

Thanks for the flood of advice. I guess in many ways I had answered my own questions but wanted some other voices to echo the same sentiment.

To Basilone: The Adcock..... I've seen it slabbed as an 8 or a 7 based on the condition mine is in. The only thing that would keep it from an 8 is the L/R centering. The T/B is 50/50 and the corners and edges are super. Back is snow white. Tough call and probable based upon the personal importance of L/R centering to the individual grader examining it.

Regards and Thanks

Ron
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#257971 - 11/10/03 07:51 AM Re: Auction results - comments/insights wanted [Re: njdolphins]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

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Ron,

I agree with botn. I think the market for a lot of different sets is way down
compared to a year or two ago. I'm not real familiar with your 63 Fleer
set. However, I am familiar with another set you collect - 1964 Baseball
Topps Giants. Overall the prices for these cards in nm/mt and mint
grade is way down compared to one,two, and three years ago. I'm sure
there are exceptions at times but this is the overall trend. And it does
not matter if the cards are graded by Sgc or Psa. They are both down.

As far as Sgc 86 cards being viewed as Psa 7's, I think that also depends
on the sets. If this is the case for 86's, it is not the case for 92's. At least
the cards I've been following. I've seen some strong prices paid for Sgc
92's in comparison to the same cards as Psa 8's. The 59 Robinson
comes to mind.

I think that Basilone is correct with his comments too. This set is
collected by many in Psa slabs. I only know one other set collector
other than you in Sgc slab. And I've grabbed a few but do not collect
the set if full. The one comment I disagree with Basilone on is switching
the set to Psa slabs when ready to sell. You would do better selling
your high end 88's and 92's in some cases I'm sure. It's just a matter
of knowing who will buy. Also, I think crossing over most cards graded
84 or lower is a waste of money. And if the 86 would become a Psa
7 then that would be a waste too.

Finally, I think most cards are starting to settle down in price due largely
to the explosion in the populations of many cards. I think as the pops
continue to go up for cards from the 60's and 70's prices may continue
to go down. Hey a good time to buy might be coming up. I still think
a lot of cards have not hit bottom yet. I do think that a lot of cards from
the 50's graded Sgc 92 or better are great to buy at a discount (if you
can).

Good luck and hang in there!

aconte
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#257972 - 11/10/03 08:05 AM Re: Auction results - comments/insights wanted [Re: njdolphins]
the1nderer
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 18

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Quote:

Mays(84): Sold for $80, SMR for a "7" = $185




Only other Mays on ebay in 7 was a PSA 7 that didn't get a bid @ $110.

Quote:

Gibson (86): Sold for $50, SMR for a "7" = $90, an "8" = $175




No other Gibson in the last 15 days in 7 or 8.

Quote:

Drysdale (86): Sold for $60, SMR for a "7" = $75, an "8" = $175




PSA 7 went for $59, so essentially the same as your 86 sold for.

Quote:

Robinson (86): Sold for $71, SMR for a "7" = $95, an "8" = $235




PSA 7 didn't sell for $95, no other comparison points.

Quote:

Adcock (86): No opening bid@$99.99, SMR for a "7" = $150, an "8" = $300




PSA 8 went for $180, 60% of SMR so your 86 not selling at 67% of SMR 7 isn't that great a shock.

Quote:

What conclusions do you all draw from this??




Ss mentioned, you're trying to compare apples to oranges - it seems to me for desirable vintage cards, the SGC half grades help, while for more run of the mill cards from say post-60, they don't have as great an effect. The point is well taken - how many people are building '63 Fleer sets in SGC, or even are aggressively persuing the sets in less than NM/MT condition?

I'm still old school - I look at a Mays in NM condition that sold for 40% of Beckett (last time I checked) and think it was a good deal, while some common PSA 9s @ $300+ just seems ludicrous to me. But to each their own - fact of the matter is that I can find a Mays whenver I want in NM condition, while a specific common in PSA 9 is no walk in the park.

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#257973 - 11/10/03 10:32 AM Re: Auction results - comments/insights wanted [Re: njdolphins]
Fabfrank
(S)uper Collector


Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 293

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njdolphins- I have to agree with many of the other posts. Depending on the year most 7's and 8's from the last 30 years have dropped in price. Matter of fact many 9's and 10's too. For every recording setting price we hear on a low pop/hi grade common, there are hundreds of cards that trade for less than guide/or the previous price realized. Some people will tell you the sole reason for your realized prices is because of the holder. That may be a factor, but it's a very small factor.
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#257974 - 11/10/03 10:41 AM Re: Auction results - comments/insights wanted [Re: Fabfrank]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

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You need to go back in time (more than 15 days) to see some prices on the Adcock. NJDolphans has been around the 63 Fleer game for quite some time...he knows the prices that 8s have gotten in the past year.

Fabfrank- You suggest that he sells with SGC rather than PSA...right? Okay..since there is one other "known" collector of 1963 Fleers...what happens to the price if that collector already has it?

All of this is really moot in terms of selling...if he plans to keep the set and likes them in SGC holders (which they do look nice in)....all the power to him.

John

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#257975 - 11/10/03 10:44 AM Re: Auction results - comments/insights wanted [Re: Basilone]
njdolphins
The Collectinator


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 333
Loc: Trimmed, Pressed, Power Erased

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Basilone

I do indeed plan to keep my set and everything I have been selling to date are my extras. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see the prices be a bit higher however. As for Adcock, I generally see the 8's go for no lower than $200 and sometimes they crack $300 depending on timing, the presentation of the card etc...

Ron
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