#309056 - 01/09/04 06:26 PM
PSA and IBS
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botn
I am gonna miss that car.
Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA
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It would seem that some of the usual suspects on the CU forum are having another bout with Irritable Bowel Syndrome. There is nothing more hilarious than watching these boys spin their webs of denial.
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=250873
Best,
Greg
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#309059 - 01/12/04 07:21 AM
Re: PSA and IBS
[Re: botn]
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Sean_C
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Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 54
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What exactly are we denying, Greg? That WIWAG didn't happen? That it wasn't poorly handled by PSA? Please explain.
Quote:
It would seem that some of the usual suspects on the CU forum are having another bout with Irritable Bowel Syndrome. There is nothing more hilarious than watching these boys spin their webs of denial.
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=250873
Best,
Greg
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#309060 - 01/12/04 07:36 AM
Re: PSA and IBS
[Re: Sean_C]
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deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap
Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX
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While I wouldn't want to put words in botn's mouth, I think he is implying that the PSA faithful are severely underestimating the scope of the WIWAG scandal.
How many cards do you think were involved?
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#309061 - 01/12/04 08:30 AM
Re: PSA and IBS
[Re: deadlyembrace]
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srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.
Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY
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All I want to know is what exactly did WIWAG do -- if they were cracking and re-sealing the same holder with another card...well, , that's one thing...and the complexity in cracking and resealing would probably limit the numbers of cards that are floating around.
If, on the other hand, they were cracking and then re-sealing new holders (meaning that they had a stack of virgin holders lying around and an ultrasonic welder, as some people assert) then that's another story all together. This would mean that you really can't spot a "tampered" holder -- because if isn't really tampered with. It has a bogus card inside, but the holder would be fine. 
The second scenario is ugly indeed.
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#309062 - 01/12/04 08:56 AM
Re: PSA and IBS
[Re: deadlyembrace]
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Sean_C
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Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 54
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Well, lets take a look at things logically:
Here is WIWAG's Feedback, and here is Grade & Trade's For the sake of argument, let's say EVERY SINGLE TRANSACTION SHOWING FEEDBACK FOR EVERY CARD EVER SOLD BY THE 2, (even the SGC and BGS cards that might have been in WIWAG's inventory) WAS A RESEALED HOLDER, EVEN THE NEGATIVE ONES. The total is 19,387, or about 3/10's of a percent of all of the cards PSA has graded (basing this on an upgrade to 20,000 cards out of 6,000,000 graded PSA cards. PS, feel free to check my math, as I'm sort of doing this on the fly between phone calls). Now you, me, and the Joe Stalin all know that not all of those cards were tainted. To appease you, lets say even half were, so that would be 10,000. I don't think it's that much (I'd say less than 1,000), simply because even at 10,000 someone would have noticed sooner rather than later that their case had been tampered with. But to go throwing around the #'s I've been seeing is just plain wishful thinking.
Go ahead and bash them for things they've done or not done, but let's try to keep things in perspective here.
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While I wouldn't want to put words in botn's mouth, I think he is implying that the PSA faithful are severely underestimating the scope of the WIWAG scandal.
How many cards do you think were involved?
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#309063 - 01/12/04 11:35 AM
Re: PSA and IBS
[Re: Sean_C]
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botn
I am gonna miss that car.
Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA
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Quote:
All I want to know is what exactly did WIWAG do
As I have said over and over that is a question that you folks need to press CU, specifically Joe Orlando about. If you are all satisfied with the way that CU handled this then there is no point in discussing this any further.
At the very minimum isn't odd that CU never gave exact numbers of how many cards were involved, or what to look for in the "resealed" holders. Why has CU afforded more protection to WIWAG than to its own customers who have not broken the law? Dude was the one that posted the outcome of the BS sentencing. Why has CU not followed up with this scandal but instead has decided to sweep it under the carpet?
If I owned PSA holders I would certainly want these questions and more answered. I think that you all have a right to that information since you are the ones that have made that company what it is today.
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#309065 - 01/12/04 12:28 PM
Re: clarification on grade & trade
[Re: estang]
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Sean_C
Hobbyist
Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 54
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While others might be able to provide better details, some of the cards Grade & Trade sold came from WIWAG. Many moons ago, in a long deleted post, I had found that PSA appeared to have graded about 30 or so Ken Griffey Jr. "Broder" cards as 1989 Star cards. While trying to track everything down, half appeard in G&T auctions, some appeared in WIWAG auctions, the rest from random sellers. Shortly after I had posted my findings on the PSA boards (I posted there to get a better consensus that they were unlicensed Broder cards, even though I was pretty sure they were), my post was deleted, and all of the auctions from all of the sellers went bye-bye. It wasn't until after the FBI busted WIWAG that I was aware that one was selling cards for the other. I'm just a collector though, so some of the others here might be able to shed a bit more light on their relationship.
(BTW, I bought a PSA 9 Topps Ripken rookie from G&T, and both the card and the holder look fine to me).
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