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#309076 - 01/16/04 10:05 AM Re: PSA and IBS [Re: Basilone]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

Offline
Yes but I suggest that you contact Joe Orlando and ask him. Not trying to be difficult but since CU has created their version of a Witness Protection Program for WIWAG, this type of information should come from them.

You may also want to check with our mutual board member, Sean.




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#309077 - 01/16/04 10:28 AM Re: PSA and IBS [Re: botn]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

Offline
Well...I cannot see how you are "helping" the card community by not filling us on those ebay names (which I would try to avoid).
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#309078 - 01/16/04 11:09 AM Re: PSA and IBS [Re: Basilone]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

Offline
If CU did not think that it should disclose that information to the public then why should it be my responsibility? Keep in mind that I am the guy that many of you love to discredit.

Why don't you pick up your telephone and give Joe Orlando a call? I would think that the information that he could tell you is going to be interpreted as being far more reliable than what I can provide. And the call is free.

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#309079 - 01/16/04 11:22 AM Re: PSA and IBS [Re: MW1]
Sean_C
Hobbyist


Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 54

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Quote:

reliable sources who have first hand experience with the WIWAG debacle have detailed a pretty extensive problem that continues to this day




Who are these people, Mike? If you are so certian of your information, why won't you name your sources? This is exactly what I've been talking about. Without providing specifics as to it's origin, your information is not credible. Heck, reliable sources have told me that you lied to me about the whole National incident. Should I believe them or you?

I assure you Mike, I'm not in denial as to the impact what happened. When the story first broke I was ready to get rid of all of my cards, graded or otherwise. After getting through the "chicken little" phase of the scandal, I realized that as long as I made sure that I inspected the cases better, inspected the cards better, I'd probably not get taken in. If I did, oh well, that's the risk I was taking. The risk of me potentially buying a raw, trimmed/altered card was far greater than me buying a WIWAG card.

You are both entitled to your opinions, and I respect that you have them. Just don't start expressing your opinons as "the truth", since neither your "opinions" nor my "opinions" are "the truth". If you have specific evidence (again, names, #'s, photos, etc.) please post them as it will back up your claims. Who knows, you might even be able to get me to change my opinion as well. The only thing I am influenced by is proof.

Personally, if I were the 2 of you, I'd be more concerned with the fact that the card doctor has been selling a boat load of SGC graded cards latley rather than what happened a year ago with a company that neither of you are associated with anymore. And yes, I've already gone about 5 rounds with Joe Orlando about the # of PSA cards Dr. Trim has been selling. Those PSA cases scare me a hell of a lot more than WIWAG.




Quote:

Sean,

I'm not sure why you persist in your denial, but there's no question that the scope of the WIWAG/PSA holder scandal is considerably greater than what most perceive and that CU's response to this problem was severely inadequate. And yes, on the subject of encapsulation, there is no question that WIWAG obtained and used unused holders. That being said, I do not believe that buying high dollar vintage cards in PSA holders is a good value.

One other point. The figures that you provide are mere guesstimates based on your subjective opinions. In reality, reliable sources who have first hand experience with the WIWAG debacle have detailed a pretty extensive problem that continues to this day -- a problem that affects many of the top collectors as many high dollar cards in fraudulent PSA holders REMAIN in the hobby. Do the math. Millions of dollars in revenue, $60,000 in refunds.




Edited by SGCmod (01/17/04 07:50 AM)
_________________________
Apt reading.

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#309080 - 01/16/04 12:11 PM Re: PSA and IBS [Re: Sean_C]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

Offline
Greg-

I apologize for asking you to actually"back up" your statements.


Edited by Basilone (01/16/04 12:47 PM)

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#309081 - 01/16/04 12:55 PM Re: PSA and IBS [Re: Basilone]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

Offline
I concur. You are sorry.

It certainly is interesting to watch how people react when they feel powerless and are motivated by trying to protect themselves. It is so fitting that you said, (which I would try to avoid) in reference to wanting to know who WIWAG is operating under. Emphasis on the I. Notice how you were not asking on behalf of the collectors.

What a conflict you must feel too. To desire information from a person who you will quickly discredit when he does not cave in to your whim. You are more than willing to be civil towards me if I give you what you want. Amazing thing is that you prefer to use me as a scapegoat because you (collectively) do not have the moxie to go after CU for all of the answers.







Edited by SGCmod (01/17/04 07:29 AM)

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#309082 - 01/16/04 12:59 PM Re: PSA and IBS [Re: botn]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

Offline
Hey Mello-Mint (Greg)

Who do you think you are talking to?


Edited by SGCmod (01/17/04 07:30 AM)

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#309083 - 01/16/04 01:06 PM Re: PSA and IBS [Re: botn]
Sean_C
Hobbyist


Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 54

Offline
Don't worry Greg, I've already PM'd him the ID (I mentioned it in one of my posts earlier as well). Anyone else seeing the irony of him telling, yet he lacks the courage to back up his accusations against PSA the the evidence he claims to have?


Quote:

I concur. You are sorry.

It certainly is interesting to watch how people react when they feel powerless. What a conflict you must feel too. To desire information from a person who you will quickly discredit when he does not cave in to your whim. You are more than willing to be civil towards me if I give you what you want. Amazing thing is that you prefer to use me as a scapegoat because you (collectively) do not have the moxie to go after CU for all of the answers.





Edited by SGCmod (01/17/04 07:34 AM)
_________________________
Apt reading.

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#309084 - 01/16/04 01:12 PM Re: PSA and IBS [Re: Basilone]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

Offline
Quote:

Hey Mello-Mint (Greg)



I can see that you really are an outsider in the hobby. If you think that addressing me as Mello-Mint (Greg) as an attmept to out me then all you have done is revealed how truly ignorant you are to what is happening in the hobby. That id is my buying id and I have never hidden behind this fact. Everyone, except you I guess, knows that is me. e-mails for both of my ebay ids go to my domain botn.com. If I wanted to remain anonymous I would not use the domain that I owned for both ebay ids.

If you do not like the tone of what I write then you should consider cleaning up your poor attitude towards me. Who do you think you are? You always have the option of not posting here.


Edited by SGCmod (01/17/04 07:36 AM)

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#309085 - 01/16/04 01:18 PM Re: PSA and IBS [Re: botn]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

Offline

I suggest that you quit slamming people.....you are about the only person on this board who does it on a regular basis. Funny...I can talk hockey cards with MW and talk 1963 Fleers with NJDolphins but you have to be so defensive regarding an question that could help ALL collectors.

Im not going to back down and will not be bullied by you.

Oh by the way...another board member here gave me the answer I was looking for...thanks to me posting the question.


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