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#309156 - 02/06/04 12:51 PM Re: Dmitri who??? [Re: deadlyembrace]
estang
(S)uper Collector


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 496

Offline


Dimitri Young, Major League Baseball player, is a collector of high-end graded baseball cards. Apparently most of his collection resides in PSA holders and some GAI. His "baseball card buying agent" surfaced on the CU Message Board in the last few days, per the request of Dimitri, to elaborate his collecting habits and squelch the rumor that he is going to cross-over his entire collection to GAI.

The "buying agent' posted in all caps, with mis-spelled words and poor grammar. He was attacked (understandable...to a degree...given what I read) due to the presentation of his posts and was later "legitimized" as being who he said he was by other forum members that have dealt with him. The "agent" also stated that Dimitri will by vintage mid 80s and earlier vending and rack/cello product.

It would be nice to see his story published by one of the leading trade magazines and get a glimpse into his collection, interest and insight.

There was a remark by the "agent" that stated something to the effect that SGC and Beckett's services along with Pro would not be part of his collection. Folks on the CU forum were quick to point out that SGC shouldn't be part of that list and Pro was on another plateau.

In reading the "agents" post, I found the gentleman to not portray himself very well with his grammar/spelling and then seemed ignorant with some of his comments. I'd imagine he is who he says he is, but found it rather odd.

By the look's of Dimitri's conditioning, he may be spending a bit too much time looking for baseball cards inside the boxes of Ding Dongs and Twinkies... Sorry, couldn't resist
_________________________
Enjoy Your Collection & SKOL VIKINGS!

Erik

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#309157 - 02/06/04 01:09 PM Re: we may never know the real story [Re: Davalillo1]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

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Hi Jim,

I have been following the CU boards. I find it unbelievable that Joe "Whack Jobs" Orlando allows others to attack you relentlessly but that is not even a close second to the snide comments that “Whack Jobs" makes to and about you. His grading room is not the only second rate aspect of CU's business. I was not sure if CU could be disgraced any further but Orlando has certainly proved otherwise. There is no way, no matter how hard you pushed, that Sean Skeffington or Steve Rocchi would ever treat you with that kind of disrespect.

I know as well, from Baker and Rocchi that, Dmitri has crossed cards over and will be doing far more business with GAI.

I know that Orlando is not going to comment on the WIWAG scandal. If his lips are moving on this subject then he will most likely be telling a lie.

I also know that CU has been considering the half point system for a while and are waiting for the "right" time to drop that bomb.

Orlando is most likely fighting for his job (and his license plates PSA PREZ) as PSA loses market share to other qualified grading companies. CU is a business and as such they will do what is in their best interest without regard for the impact on the collectors. Raising prices, forcing the membership to submit, half point system implemented after 10 years and 6 million cards and last but certainly not least, the WIWAG conspiracy. CU's (PSA's) motto should be BUT WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME TODAY?

Jim, all due respect, but you exemplify part of the problem. Despite Orlando’s complete and total disrespect for you AND knowing what you know as identified in your post above, you continue to send them cards and support their business. I understand that you are 20,800+ holders and several million into them but you protest but then acquiesce.

Not trying to pat myself on the back but if you want to make an impact you will have to make sacrifices. For me the benefits derived have far out weighed the sacrifices made.

Best,
Greg

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#309158 - 02/06/04 01:17 PM Not a big deal but... [Re: estang]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

Offline
on one post from Joe O:

Quote:

95-Plus percent of Dmitri's collection is PSA graded even though he does, once in a while, buy other graded cards to fill holes in his collection.





another post by D. Young's buyer:

Quote:

i did neglect to say he has broke out some cards and gave them to gai but not his whole collection which is what i thought was the question here




Not that I care...

Jim,

Don't know how you allow yourself to get the treatment you do at times.
Many will say that everyone should be treated the same. I say that is
true to a point. But a guy with 20,000 Psa slabs should get a little more
respect that a guy with 20. I'm not saying favorable grades .

I also see more people bailing out of some of the 60's sets each year.
The turnover seems to be great. That is for the Psa registry and the top
spots. This might help you get closer to completing some of the easier
sets from the 60's in all 8's. But I doubt it will ever help you quiet 'toppsgun.'


One comment I disagree with you is the pricing for the Psa brand being
the strongest. This general statement is not 100% accurate. There are many
examples of other cards doing just as well if not better in other holders.
No doubt your collection is incredible. But I wonder how some of your
cards would do if sold in the current slab/cert#. I would also bet if you
could raise some of those nice 8's to 8.5's who knows....

Good luck across the street. The reading of several posts has been
weird....

aconte
_________________________

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#309159 - 02/06/04 01:18 PM Re: A correction and some questions [Re: deadlyembrace]
estang
(S)uper Collector


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 496

Offline
I wanted to chime in on a couple points and perceptions on the WIGWAG scandal just from what I've read on this and CU forum:

1. PSA/CU has done a poor public relations job handling the illegal activity. Having the president of the company make his statements on the CU message board is beyond belief. He comes across very defensive on the issue and then when the subject of half point grading comes up, he tells the very forum on the WIGWAG scandal about how insiginficant the population of the forum is to make such a decision.

Well if the forum is so small and insignificant in the big picture of their customer base, why in the heck does he even use it to post and expound on such critical company issues ???

2. Lack of any objective sports memorabilia industry reports on the subject or ANY industry related topic, hurts the situation and the hobby overall. I don't truly know BOTN from Dan Markel from BMW; only have a basic understanding of a small portion of their view points. Unfortunately, no matter how good the detective report they or anyone puts together, it will probably not receive wide acceptance; unless it is backed by PSA, the prosecuting team and the defendants. That shouldn't stop anyone from doing it, but getting it certified by all involved, would legitimize the situation. Perhaps BOTN is on that path. Hope so.

3. It is not surprising that people within a hobby of rampant fake autographs would do something like this.

4. For the heckuva it, I tried to crack a PSA case and it doesn't seem like it would be real easy to do it consistently and then re-seal the same case and sell it.

So is the widespread fact that WIGWAG had unused PSA cases and a sealing machine?

If so, how did they get them?

a) stole them in transit or from PSA property
b) contacted the supplier and falsified who they were to ship them some
c) found another supplier to create a knock-off case

That's a question I'd like to know the answer to.

_________________________
Enjoy Your Collection & SKOL VIKINGS!

Erik

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#309160 - 02/06/04 03:22 PM Re: Not a big deal but... [Re: aconte]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

Offline
Dav >

I have to agree with Aconte and BOTN. I completely understand that is not realistic to suggest you cross tens of thousands of cards, just for the cost alone, but I do think Aconte and BOTN have points you should give serious consideration.


Edited by vayank (02/06/04 03:26 PM)
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#309161 - 02/06/04 06:40 PM Re: Not a big deal but... [Re: vayank]
grilloj39
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 215
Loc: San Antonio, TX

Offline
Jim...I would recommend you hold onto your PSA graded cards....for now. If the day comes with PSA no longer commands premium prices for its graded cards (and that day may come soon), you can always consider crossing over your collection then.

However, I would strongly recommend any new raw, vintage cards be sent for grading elsewhere. Both SGC and GAI are more consistent and accurate in their grading and it is only a matter of time before the collecting public takes notice.

_________________________
Always looking for GAI,SGC,PSA vintage Hockey and Boxing.

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#309162 - 02/06/04 07:02 PM Re: Not a big deal but... [Re: grilloj39]
jackstraw
Talkative?


Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 744
Loc: @ a Baseball Card Show

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i put PSA in the same catagory as the catholic church! no matter how much garbage becomes public or how much dirt is swept under the carpet you still get 1000's through the doors!
_________________________
Ken Griffey Jr

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#309163 - 02/06/04 09:04 PM Re: Not a big deal but... [Re: jackstraw]
KLL
Hobbyist


Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 62

Offline
Dav

Just my opinion. I would think that SGC would cross your whole collection and my guy feeling tells me that they would do it for next to nothing if not nothing.

I don't know about Young's collection, but I was told by a very big west coast dealer that GAI has done this with a couple of high profile sets/collection. Moved the cards into GAI holders from PSA holders for ZERO dollars. I would bet that they did the same with Young's collection (I would have thought he would have moved them to SGC holders- I've got to think that he is going to take a bath on the move to a GAI holder from the PSA holder).

I would think that Sean would love nothing more than to drop 20,000+ PSA flips in Joe Orlado's lap and to let the world know it.

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#309164 - 02/07/04 05:49 AM Re: Not a big deal but... [Re: KLL]
Davalillo1
Collector is an understatement.


Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 119

Offline
KLL,

I don't know Sean and I'm not exactly invisible in the hobby. Surprised he has never contacted me. I have to believe that switching over 20,000 cards(99 percent pre 1970) from psa would have significant repurcussions beyond just my collection.

Grillo,

I have to agree on your comments about both GAI and SGC being more accurate graders--my two concerns are my 150 or so graded sets that I am working on that I do not want to see mixed and resale value.

Tony,

Turnover has been big on the 60s sets--good point. I wait until there is a seller in many cases and just jump in. Certainly none of them with possible exception of 1962 are truly difficult in psa 8 or better.
You are right about the 8.5 issue I think--

Greg,

I admire what you are doing and have said so privately and publicly but I will do things my way.

Jim(Davalillo)


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#309165 - 02/07/04 06:12 AM Re: Not a big deal but... [Re: Davalillo1]
estang
(S)uper Collector


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 496

Offline
Dav,

I'm surprised that you're surprised that Sean or someone at SGC would reach out to you about crossing your collection over. That is not good business practice for them to do. They've got a web site and toll-free lines just waiting for your call.

Pick up the phone and take the initiative. At least see what they have to say.

I'd be surprised that SGC or more mature graded card company would do the cross-over for free or at any substantial operating loss (perhaps a minimal one). I would think from opening the package, to sorting, to examination, to breaking cases, to sorting the ones that don't cross, to inputting data and creating labels, to re-holdering, to packing and shipment it would take a good deal of time.

At 20,800 cards, lets run three scenarios of how much time it would take a company to perform this service. Let's also assume including 10 days for holidays that there's 250 business days in a year:

15 minutes per card or 5200 man hours or just over 216 days or 86.4% emp. time
10 minutes per card or 3467 man hours or just over 144 days or 57.7% emp. time
5 minutes per card or 1733 man hours or just over 72 days or 28.8% employee time

For someone to take this on, they'd have to look at it as an investment into other collectors moving their new and cross business to them. You'd look to build some advertising or PR campaigns budget over something like this. I wouldn't think you'd do it with zero publicity or fan-fare.

Pick up the phone and call SGC, see what they have to say. Once again, I wouldn't expect them or anyone with good business sense to be approaching you or another collector to do such a thing. Especially since you are so visible on the CU board. Could you refrain from telling the world that SGC or another company called you to inquire about crossing over?? Based upon the tone of the boards there at times, I wouldn't make that bet. Therefore, pick up the phone and see what they have to say!

_________________________
Enjoy Your Collection & SKOL VIKINGS!

Erik

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