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#335272 - 02/09/04 05:34 PM Re: Orlando comments comical [Re: Davalillo1]
KLL
Hobbyist


Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 62

Offline
Dav

I don't think Joe Orlando reads or posts here. And I don't think that most of the members of the CU board that support you post here either.

MW

I am not surprised by BOTN's or Dav postings. I am a little bit surprised with you that you have aligned yourself with these two guys, who have no interest in the SGC forum, but only use this forum to respond to CU forum discussions/attacks. I expected a little more from you.

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#335273 - 02/09/04 05:45 PM Re: Orlando comments comical [Re: KLL]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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#335274 - 02/09/04 06:07 PM Re: Orlando comments comical [Re: MW1]
KLL
Hobbyist


Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 62

Offline
It appears that I have not explained myself. I don't care if the are right. They very well maybe right. I just don't agree with where they are posting their opinions/thoughts. They have no interest in SGC. And if they do, it is only recent interest. That is my point.

Your interest in SGC and this forum along with other members is different than DAV and BOTN. We may not agree all the time. But we are all on the same page. This board has been lowered to the same level as CU boards, which is a shame. And your participation in this bs of only makes matters worse. I am surre that some CU board members normally view our board as being above the usual squabbling that occurs over at the CU board. As of this moment, that has all changed. We have dropped to their level due to two ex CU members. You as the most visble voice in the forum and your support of their bs is irresponsible, given your stature and respect here.

Di you read Dav's most recent post. It has nothing to do with this forum! Nothing to do with SGC! If you can't see what they are doing and how you have been used, that is sad.

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#335275 - 02/09/04 06:11 PM Re: Orlando comments comical [Re: MW1]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

Offline
The issues that I raise are problems that exist with PSA but affect the entire hobby. We do not exist in a vacuum.

KLL, you would have a better chance getting Orlando to tell the truth about WIWAG before Sean were to ban me from posting here. I have used this forum, in part, to share my opinion and knowledge on CU issues. I have supported SGC for many years by making submissions, selling cards in their holders and recommending their services to each of my customers.

For you to have concluded that I do not care about SGC is entirely baseless.





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#335276 - 02/09/04 06:15 PM Re: Orlando comments comical [Re: MW1]
Davalillo1
Collector is an understatement.


Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 119

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KLL,

You are wrong on both scores.

Dav

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#335277 - 02/09/04 06:24 PM Re: Orlando comments comical [Re: botn]
KLL
Hobbyist


Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 62

Offline
Baseless?

Your posts on every imaginable forum is well documented. I would challenge you to show me a few (even 1) positive SGC posting/comment you ever made while you were still supportive of PSA/CU.

My guess would be you never did. You only started saying positive things when you started to have problems with CU/PSA or after you got banned.

I do not know that exact dates of your departure from CU, but would be bet it is pretty close to the time that you joined this forum. And I will not debate the positive comments that you have made since your arrival here.


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#335278 - 02/09/04 06:34 PM Re: Orlando comments comical [Re: Davalillo1]
grilloj39
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 215
Loc: San Antonio, TX

Offline
Reading posts on the PSA board and watching several posts that are nothing more than insults and name-calling (one of the very reasons Jim was removed for), made me realize Mr Orlando was being totally disingenious in his comments.

Even though I submit my raw cards to a grading company other than PSA, I still have about 2000 PSA graded cards left in my collection. I am slowly going to begin the process of crossing over these cards to SGC and GAI. I do not see how PSA can turn itself around with the current Leadership in place. My C55, C56, and V145s will slowly be crossed over to SGC (possibly 1970 baseball as well). (The C55s and 56s do not sit straight in the PSA-mylar holders anyway). The rest will go to GAI. IMHO I consider this a personal reason as well as a long-term investment. I feel it is only a matter of time before the rest of the hobby catches up and sees the stability and accuracy of the other grading companies, versus the possible "slippery-slope" PSA may be heading for.


Edited by grilloj39 (02/09/04 06:43 PM)
_________________________
Always looking for GAI,SGC,PSA vintage Hockey and Boxing.

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#335279 - 02/09/04 07:04 PM Re: Orlando comments comical [Re: KLL]
buttermarc
Collector


Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 79
Loc: NYC

Offline
Quote:

Dav

I don't think Joe Orlando reads or posts here. And I don't think that most of the members of the CU board that support you post here either.

MW

I am not surprised by BOTN's or Dav postings. I am a little bit surprised with you that you have aligned yourself with these two guys, who have no interest in the SGC forum, but only use this forum to respond to CU forum discussions/attacks. I expected a little more from you.




KLL:
You are one of the few people I don't know, but I thought I might chime in a bit here. I DO support Davalillo, and I do post here. Jim is a great collector pursuing an ambitious task. He also is an investment banker and has historically been cited by the industry's award (Institutional Investor) for his prowess in his particular field of expertise. If there is one thing that I absolutely DO trust, it is Jim's ability to analyze a company, their performance, and the competitive landscape they face in the future. Add in his passion for this hobby, and I think it is wise to listen to what he has to say.

I do think that some of Jim's posts on the CU board in the past have been presented in such a way as to maximize reaction from both collectors and PSA brass. I would also tend to believe that Jim is probably not surprised that he was banned from the PSA boards (though I have not personally asked him this question).

I personally have a majority of my collection in PSA holders these days, primarily for consistency and simplicity. I nonetheless have a number of SGC and GAI graded cards that I don't see the value in crossing over. I even have some old-holder CSA and ASA cards that I believe are authentic, unaltered and generally cool as is. I think it is important to understand what PSA is and what they have done over the past few years.

Baker and Rocchi still have a large following throughout the hobby. Add in some of the industry's top grades in Sean Drinkwater and Danny Fisher (both formerly of PSA), as well as some other experienced graders, and you have a formidable powerhouse on your hands.

It is unwise to blindly assume that PSA always acts in small collector's best interests -- and it is furthermore unwise to assume that their is no hidden agenda behind some of what they do. A good example is Charlie Merkel. He won the 2003 PSA Set Registry Awards "Best Collection of the Year" award. Though it is safe to say that he has one of the best graded card collections in the hobby, it is nonetheless important to understand the power struggle going on behind the scenes. Frustrated with PSA's inconsistent grading of some of his sets (I believe his 1954 Bowman set was a particular example), Charlie crossed over a number of his sets over to GAI, in part because of his belief in Baker and Rocchi. Charlie is one of the advanced collectors of GAI graded cards, and I know that I have sold him at least one Bowman HOF RC in GAI 9 MINT condition. Perhaps PSA just wanted to honor all that Charlie has collected in the past (independent of holder) -- but perhaps, just perhaps, they are hoping that he does not cross the rest of his collection over. I am sure that most will agree that some of Charlie's individuals sets approach values in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. I would not even begin to surmise what his entire collection is worth -- especially since he collected many sets pre-grading days, and often has a number of "backup" sets sitting around.

At any rate, I digress. Jim is one of the hobby's good guys, and he is often trying to challenge PSA to be the best company it can be, serving many collectors in the best way possible. There have been some serious concerns about PSA's service in the past eighteen months, concerns that are important to be brought out, debated and discussed in a public forum.

MS
_________________________
"It is not the critic who counts..."

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#335280 - 02/09/04 07:12 PM Re: Orlando comments comical [Re: buttermarc]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

Offline
Marc,

Great post!

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#335281 - 02/09/04 07:14 PM Re: Orlando comments comical [Re: KLL]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

Offline
KLL

Yes, baseless.

With the exception of one thread I started where I was upset with SGC in their handling of the review of two cards, I have never made a negative post about SGC. In fact, when able I always publicly praised their services. I was one of the few PSA Authorized Dealers, possibly the only, who had decided to use their service very early on. In fact it was well before BMW ever considered submitting cards to them.

Since you seem to understand the hobby from afar or from what you hear from others, you should probably know that PSA, and now CU, has never been too thrilled when their Authorized Dealers used a competitor’s service. At times you could even say that ultimatums were given.



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