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#338502 - 02/11/04 07:35 PM What about sheet-cut cards?
MW1
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How do other forum members feel about sheet-cut cards -- i.e., cards cut from sheets after the fact. We all know that several of the major grading companies have encapsulated them...so what is the future for these post-factory creations? Will they eventually be recognized as non-legit dealer creations of limited value or will some collectors continue to accept them as high grade scarcities? Is it also possible that eBay provides the perfect conduit for the commerce of sheet cut cards due to the inability of buyers to closely inspect merchandise before bidding? Thoughts?
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#338503 - 02/11/04 07:53 PM Re: What about sheet-cut cards? [Re: MW1]
jackstraw
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i would not be surprised if you see in the near future a grading company encapsulating the cards with the designation of "non factory cut"? i would say then that they will have some value.the gretzky,messier,bourque and the such will hold some value and in turn bump the originals value.
i could be wrong?
they are still originals but were not cut at the factory so yes they have some value but its close to impossible to tell the difference from a non factory cut card and a card that was trimmed.
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#338504 - 02/11/04 07:53 PM Re: What about sheet-cut cards? [Re: MW1]
buttermarc
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Quote:

How do other forum members feel about sheet-cut cards -- i.e., cards cut from sheets after the fact. We all know that several of the major grading companies have encapsulated them...so what is the future for these post-factory creations? Will they eventually be recognized as non-legit dealer creations of limited value or will some collectors continue to accept them as high grade scarcities? Is it also possible that eBay provides the perfect conduit for the commerce of sheet cut cards due to the inability of buyers to closely inspect merchandize before bidding? Thoughts?





I have seen every grading company encapsulate sheet-cut cards at one time or another. That being said, there is one particularly egregious grading card company that has seemingly graded thousands of sheet-cut cards. That they are not labelled as such annoys and disturbs me greatly. I have happily seen their value decline over time.

As for ebay, I think there are some tell-tale signs of sheet cut cards, and I simply do not have enough experience with ungraded cards on Ebay to know if sheet-cut cards will be any worse than raw trimmed/re-colored, etc. cards that make their way through Ebay.

I think some sets, like 1984 Nestle, should be encapsulated by all major grading companies. As it was never released but on a full sheet, collectors [should be] generally aware that a card was sheet cut from this set. Indeed, some of the grading card companies do grade these cards.

Finally, perhaps there is a small "value" to some sheet-cut cards. For example, I have a 1974 OPC Schmidt sheet cut card. What it provides for me is an 'ideal' of what a Schmidt card from that set could theoretically look like. Obviously, my personal experience with the issue is that
a) it is hard to find. Many, many times scarcer than Topps
b) centering generally sucks across the board
c) rough cuts are very much the norm
d) The print problems on the 1974 Topps Schmidt are not generally evident on the OPC version.

So, I am happy to own the sheet-cut Schmidt just so that I could see what something could have looked like, had situations been different. That being said, I purchased that card over 2 1/2 years ago, before it was clear where all these vintage, high-grade OPC baseball cards were coming from. Alas, one of my greatest lessons learned.
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#338505 - 02/11/04 08:04 PM Re: What about sheet-cut cards? [Re: buttermarc]
MW1
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Marc,

Good post...and a follow-up question. If a grading company does not label a sheet-cut card as such should the person who is selling it be required to disclose the fact that it is allegedly sheet-cut? Opinions?

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#338506 - 02/11/04 08:09 PM Re: What about sheet-cut cards? [Re: MW1]
jackstraw
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in a perfect world yes they should! won't happen anytime soon?
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#338507 - 02/11/04 08:37 PM Re: What about sheet-cut cards? [Re: buttermarc]
MW1
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On a semi-related tangent...the odd thing about 1960s and 1970s O-Pee-Chee baseball is that some years are definitely in shorter supply than other years. For instance, I've probably seen more Mint condition 1973 O-Pee-Chee Mike Schmidts than 1973 Topps Mike Schmidts (which is probably due in part to the Topps multiple-series issue), but for 1974, those figures would be reversed. Other years like 1966 and 1981 also seem to be tougher.
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#338508 - 02/11/04 08:55 PM Re: What about sheet-cut cards? [Re: MW1]
buttermarc
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Quote:

Marc,

Good post...and a follow-up question. If a grading company does not label a sheet-cut card as such should the person who is selling it be required to disclose the fact that it is allegedly sheet-cut? Opinions?




Failure to disclose is just as dishonest as a seller auctioning off a PRO-graded card that he or she knows is trimmed. There may be a bit of a differential between a collector who does not necessarily know the card is trimmed (more often the case with Topps than OPC issues....) as opposed to the dealers (there are at least two that come to mind...) who actually do the trimming and submitting.
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#338509 - 02/11/04 08:58 PM Re: What about sheet-cut cards? [Re: MW1]
jackstraw
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o pee chee was on strike in 80 81. thats why the baseball and hockey issues seem in shorter supply, while un cut sheets are plentiful.this would explain the abundance of 80 and 81 gem mint grades from bgs?
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#338510 - 02/11/04 08:58 PM Re: What about sheet-cut cards? [Re: buttermarc]
MW1
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#338511 - 02/11/04 08:59 PM Re: What about sheet-cut cards? [Re: MW1]
buttermarc
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Quote:

On a semi-related tangent...the odd thing about 1960s and 1970s O-Pee-Chee baseball is that some years are definitely in shorter supply than other years. For instance, I've probably seen more Mint condition 1973 O-Pee-Chee Mike Schmidts than 1973 Topps Mike Schmidts (which is probably due in part to the Topps multiple-series issue), but for 1974, those figures would be reversed. Other years like 1966 and 1981 also seem to be tougher.




MW:

Interesting point. From a population perspective, the Topps is actually 3x more prevalent than the O-Pee-Chee version. And I don't think that that number is distorted because of re-submissions. Almost every major collector I know owns the Topps Schmidt rookie in 9 -- but very few seemed to be interested in that pesky issue with the French on it.

You definitely are correct that the Topps Hi-Series is relatively tough to find, whereas the OPC was distributed all in one series.

As for OPC, I would also say that 1980 often is a more difficult issue than people realize. 1976 can be a monster, too. In fact, I think 1976 is the toughest OPC issue from the 1970s (though I don't follow 1971s), though that may have been mitigated somewhat by some unopened that has surfaced. 1981 is very hard, as you said, complicated even more by the grey and white back variations.

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