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#358619 - 03/02/04 12:19 PM NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET
gates69
Hobbyist


Registered: 12/16/02
Posts: 44

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Hello Everyone,

I appreciate your patience with this issue but I assure you that this does not appear to be anything worthy of concern. Keep this in mind, in almost 13 years in business - this is the very first time anyone here has seen anything like this - once in 13 years.

1) The Rose card/holder, that was in question originally, was 100% tampered with. PSA has NEVER failed to stand behind the product. Our buyback program is in full effect. While it doesn't happen often, we do buyback past "mistakes." I have written checks for cards that are worth a lot more than a Rose in a "9" - we are very fair with this program.

In the case of the Rose holder - the holder showed evidence of tampering - clearly. This is not necessarily something you can tell from a scan. Since the holder was cracked and we felt the card was switched - the PSA guarantee no longer applies. That's it.

2) The Rose cards, in each case, were graded years ago - this is not a recent problem, etc. This also provides evidence that this was merely a programming error - an isolated one -since we have not seen anything like it since. Again, the serial number was issued years ago and we have graded millions of cards since.

3) The Rose card in MastroNet's auction is 100% fine.

In addition, I sent a warning out weeks ago regarding baseless rumor - the kind intended to harm PSA. I just read a response where the person claims to have "inside knowledge" about cost-cutting in regards to the quality of our holders, etc. Where do some of you guys get this garbage?

To be clear - the vast, vast majority of you have been really courteous and professional about things. When rumors or concerns arise, I want to hear about it because it gives PSA a chance to respond - like in this Rose case...but in some cases, when I hear that people are claiming to "know" about things based on inside knowledge and the claims are false, we will not hesitate to remove you from the boards. We just will not tolerate it.

I do appreciate the participation and support - PSA continues to flourish.

Take care,

Joe Orlando
PSA President

-------------------------
Joe Orlando

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#358620 - 03/02/04 12:29 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: gates69]
jackstraw
Talkative?


Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 744
Loc: @ a Baseball Card Show

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um? so its ok to crack a holder and switch it with a lesser grade card?so how do we go about getting these checks that joe talks about?
ok i buy a card from joe schmo sportscards off ebay? i recieve the card what do i do if it looks like a switch has taken place? call joe?call the dealer and he says i did it? seems like there would be a lot of finger pointing going on and i am stuck with a card in a card saver with a psa label on it telling the world its worthless?

confused
_________________________
Ken Griffey Jr

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#358621 - 03/02/04 01:01 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: jackstraw]
grilloj39
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 215
Loc: San Antonio, TX

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I am not sure what to believe at this point...but joe orlando doesn't explain why two cert #'s were issued to the same card. Also, according to Frank, Mike Baker who is familiar with PSA holders didn't see evidence of tampering, just evidence of recoloring.

It seems this is the only response Joe Orlando could have provided to cover himself. Frank is left out in the cold. So the bottom line is that the same situation could happen to any of us.

This is a scary situation...if true, obviously Frank, GAI, and BVG couldn't tell that the holder was tampered with...it must have been a pretty good re-seal job which just goes to show how insecure the holder is.

someone is not being forthright here and it is either Joe Orlando or Frank...According to Frank, he specifically sent e-mails to PSA not to bust the card out of its slab...why PSA disregarded his requests is beyond belief to me. At the very minimum it shows PSA could care less about the customer which is one reason why I left in the first place. Until proven otherwise, I'll err on the side of a fellow collector.

As a footnote: I personally didn't appreciate Joe Orlando's smug reply of "i've written bigger checks before." It was kind of demeaning to Frank IMO.


Edited by grilloj39 (03/02/04 01:07 PM)
_________________________
Always looking for GAI,SGC,PSA vintage Hockey and Boxing.

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#358622 - 03/02/04 01:08 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: jackstraw]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

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I know that this is not an SGC related post but I will respond to it anyway. I certainly hope that I am not irritating KLL and his anonymous buddies.

If what Joe is saying is true, why didn't he provide Frank with the ammunition to go after pghsportscards? Seems a little cruel to let the guy fend for himself. The last time that pghsportscards saw this card it was in a PSA holder. Regardless of whether they knew they were selling a card that was resealed, "which could not be detected from a scan" they should not be expected to refund anyone's money if presented with a card that is now in a protecto.

PSA was the last person to hold the card while sealed and should be responsible to at least provide a letter that states that the subject card was broken out because they felt that it was resealed.

This also brings up another concern. If we are not able to tell by a scan that a card has been resealed, would we be able to tell if holding the card in hand. Certainly Baker and Rocchi did not notice anything. Maybe PSA wants to tell the public what it is that they should be looking for since there is obviously a problem with their "tamper-evident holder".


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#358623 - 03/02/04 01:11 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: botn]
gates69
Hobbyist


Registered: 12/16/02
Posts: 44

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Just another reason why I love SGC the way I do.
They may not be the biggest but in my opinion they are the best!!!

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#358624 - 03/02/04 01:37 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: gates69]
carew4me
Just got here


Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 9

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As long as you guys keep talking about PSA then evreything is going as planned.
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#358625 - 03/02/04 01:57 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: carew4me]
remo
Collector


Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 92
Loc: washington state

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Give me a break i guess were all 12 year olds here, is that the best you can do?
_________________________
HERE FOR THE DURATION

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#358626 - 03/02/04 02:20 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: remo]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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No need to argue with carew4me. The data today is essentiall unchanged from 15months ago when I did the same search.

GAI and SGC are virtually identical as far as number of (baseball) auctions on eBAY. This is the way it was 15months ago, this is the way it is today. The one thing that has changed is that GAI seems to be gaining momentum in the '70's. SGC used to have an advantage there, they are now at a deficit.

My search for baseball said SGC had 390 auctions, GAI had 414 -- to my eye, the same number.

goodriddance189 on the CU board did a "total eBAY search" and got SGC with 1021 and GAI with 971 -- again, to my eye, the same number.

This is classic...when things are tough on the CU board, throw rocks at SGC. Brilliant carew, just brilliant.

BTW, are you happy with the Mr. Orlando's recent explanation of a strange coincidence in certification numbers? Just curious.

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#358627 - 03/02/04 02:26 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: srs1a]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

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srs1a,

Do you think carew is happy with Joe O's response?

I do.

aconte
_________________________

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#358628 - 03/02/04 02:28 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: srs1a]
Ruthfan
Just got here


Registered: 03/02/04
Posts: 1

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Well, I just posted my response to Joe's lame excuse. I will probably be kicked off now.

My post:

Boy, I am glad to see Joe come clean on this issue. What a joke. This is not worthy of concern huh?, well try telling that to the person that is out the $6k on the Rose card. Programming error?, the only programming error is you thinking that people will actually believe this bull [!@#%^&^] that you spew. The programming error just happen to print out an identical serial # to a Rose card that had been graded years ago. At least try to come up with answer that his half way believeable.

I guess it is just standard policy now, that if a customer presents a card to PSA that they don't feel comfortable with, PSA can just take it out of the slab and say the holder had been tampered with and investigation complete. Wake up, when are you going to realize that PSA's holders are terrible and are being compromised quite frequently. You know you can only cover up so much. You have stayed quiet on the WIWAG scandal when your customers have pleaded for some type of answers.

"To be clear - the vast, vast majority of you have been really courteous and professional about things."

Joe, why don't you try to be professional and answer some of the questions that people are asking. Quit taking the highroad on everything. You ask, where people get their "garbage"? Well, from what I have read, straight from the people directly involved. That includes directly from the person who is out the $6k on the Rose card and the original owner of the REAL Rose rookie that is being auctioned by Mastro's next month.

If most of these people on this board didn't kiss your a$$ so much, they might be able to realize that an innocent person was taken for a large sum of money and that PSA should do everything in its power to prevent instances like this one and future ones.

Kick me off if you choose, I am just speaking the truth.


Todd








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#358629 - 03/02/04 02:46 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: Ruthfan]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

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Todd,

Joe has already told everyone that he does not want them thinking for themselves. If you cannot conduct yourself like Acowa and Dude you are just going to find another place to post.

You are always welcome here to discuss anything that you want. Just do not tell KLL and company that I told you this.

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#358630 - 03/02/04 03:34 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: botn]
grilloj39
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 215
Loc: San Antonio, TX

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IMO I think it all boils down to one simple fact...Frank has a letter from GAI (Mike Baker) stating that the case was not tampered with. Mike Baker (although he now works at GAI) will be more familiar with tampered cases, recolored cards than any grader at PSA is ever going to be. So it is a question of who's right: Mike Baker or some grader at PSA? You make your choice.

90% of the "thanks, Joe" posters, would sing a different tune if it was their 6K.
_________________________
Always looking for GAI,SGC,PSA vintage Hockey and Boxing.

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#358631 - 03/02/04 03:36 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: gates69]
MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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#358632 - 03/02/04 04:09 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: MW1]
buttermarc
Collector


Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 79
Loc: NYC

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Geez, guys -- are we all cynics here? Do we not have complete and utter faith in the holy baseball card grading gospel, according to Joe Orlando? Has he been anything less than utterly transparent, forthcoming, and welcoming to questions?

_________________________
"It is not the critic who counts..."

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#358633 - 03/02/04 04:27 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: MW1]
MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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#358634 - 03/02/04 04:35 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: MW1]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

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Quote:

1 in 2.2 trillion




So it can happen then.

I think some of the Psa guys will sleep much better tonight. It is good
to see MW1 coming to the defense of the Psa loyalists. Maybe we can
all be friends now!

aconte
_________________________

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#358635 - 03/02/04 04:40 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: aconte]
MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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#358636 - 03/02/04 04:44 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: MW1]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

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Quote:

Aconte,

You are exactly right. This single event should greatly increase confidence among collectors since we now know that with PSA, nearly anything is possible.




Except getting the truth. The odds on that are so small that they cannot be measured.

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#358637 - 03/02/04 04:44 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: buttermarc]
jackstraw
Talkative?


Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 744
Loc: @ a Baseball Card Show

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LMAO this too funny! psa has gone downhill in the quality of their grading and i can't remember the last time i received a card in the mail and said wow that is mint? i pay psa 9 prices for 7 and 8 quality cards and i am tired of it! i would like to buy that 76 rose thats on ebay right now but i can't drop a grand on a card that i have no recourse if the holder has been tampered with? so i will let rbdjr1 bid it up (because he is protecting his investment of 1200 for the first rose that he bought)and worry about that!
you know who i feel sorry for is the part time collector that hasn't sniffed a card or ebay in a few years. he probably has a couple of wiwag cards sitting in a safe deposit box in hopes that he might be able to sell them to buy his kid a car or send college!
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Ken Griffey Jr

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#358638 - 03/02/04 05:11 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: jackstraw]
MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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#358639 - 03/02/04 05:19 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: MW1]
jackstraw
Talkative?


Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 744
Loc: @ a Baseball Card Show

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LMAO again!
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Ken Griffey Jr

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#358640 - 03/02/04 05:23 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: MW1]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

Offline
Mike,

You should be confused. If you have an IQ over 81 then most of what Joe writes is difficult to understand.

Frank never got a letter and never got any assistance from PSA. Only the colored Rose rookie in the protecto was returned to him.

Joe may lose his job before he evers gets the approval he so desperately seeks from Hall. Some new figurehead will be put in his place and the same [!@#%^&^] will happen over and over.


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#358641 - 03/02/04 05:55 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: aconte]
Basilone
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 166

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Quote:

Quote:

1 in 2.2 trillion




So it can happen then.

I think some of the Psa guys will sleep much better tonight. It is good
to see MW1 coming to the defense of the Psa loyalists. Maybe we can
all be friends now!

aconte




Tony...you made me laugh with that post.

All of this stuff is giving me a headache.

John

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#358642 - 03/02/04 08:13 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: MW1]
Sean_C
Hobbyist


Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 54

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It probably got sent out with my SMR...


Quote:



Also, did PSA actually write a letter? According to Frank they did not, but according to Joe Orlando (see quote below), they did. Maybe its delivery was delayed by the post office.




_________________________
Apt reading.

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#358643 - 03/02/04 11:07 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: MW1]
Vintagedeputy
The Collectinator


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 469
Loc: Richmond, Va.

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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

1 in 2.2 trillion




Whew! I feel better about PSA already! Guess I can rest easy knowing that my beloved hobby is safely entrusted to the sure hands of Bargain Joe and his Orchesta.
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#358644 - 03/03/04 02:34 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: Vintagedeputy]
MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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#358645 - 03/03/04 02:50 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: MW1]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

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Typical behavior of Dude and Toppsgun. They take after the fella they worship. Assign blame and never admit when you are wrong. They should be excussed for being mindless but we should extend some understanding for their being clueless. They do spend a good deal of time with their heads in the sand.
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#358646 - 03/03/04 03:14 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: botn]
MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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#358647 - 03/03/04 04:14 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: MW1]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

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MW1,

That litmus test is rather small but I understand your point. I'm just wondering
if the graders are unsure how to grade at times. The cards that were graded
trimmed now is a concern. I wonder if the mistake is now and the cards should
be ex or ex/mt or before and that they should not of been graded. Also,
I know the submitter said he took great care cracking out the cards but
we don't know if he damaged the card that went from a 5 to a 4. With
some cards it might not take much. And then finally grading is subjective!

Anyhow, the sample size was small. So who knows. You want a litmus test....

Stay tuned... Maybe after the Fort show I'll share.

aconte
_________________________

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#358648 - 03/03/04 04:39 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: aconte]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

Offline
Aconte,

You are correct. The sample is small and it does not represent a broad or comprehensive selection of re-submitted PSA cards; however, I do not feel that this re-submission is an aberration. That is why I chose the words "litmus test" -- a single indicator that reveals a greater scientific or physical reality.

I look forward to seeing your results...keep up posted!

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#358649 - 03/03/04 04:42 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: MW1]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

Offline
Oh THAT litmus test!

aconte
_________________________

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#358650 - 03/03/04 04:48 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: aconte]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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#358651 - 03/03/04 04:52 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: aconte]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

Offline
Mike,

The bottom line is that we now know that PSA/CU cannot be relied upon for factual information. They have continually displayed behavior that completely disregards the public's best interest. How can any reasonable person give their management any credibility when they have not and will not effectively address the WIWAG situation?

Was it really their position that the investigation would be compromised if they had disclosed additional facts or were they just simply covering up a huge scandal? The punishment for the crime and the scope of the investigation rested solely on the extent to which the WIWAGed cards in collections and dealers inventory were presented back to PSA. Doesn't logic dictate that in order to do this properly CU should have provided cert numbers and/or the exact methods of distribution of these cards?

As for PSA's ability to grade, this is no news. I have almost 60 cards in my safe that are clearly trimmed. Why do I know this? 'Cause I sent them in. I also just had a submission graded by GAI in which 4 of the cards had resided in previously purchased PSA holders. Two were trimmed. Again, no surprise.

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#358652 - 03/03/04 05:09 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: botn]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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#358653 - 03/03/04 05:35 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: MW1]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

Offline
Mike,

First of all Dude cannot be relied upon for anything but perpetuating myths. His imagination runs rampant as he scrambles for any possible explanation other than facts. He has actually behaved himself pretty well since the Rose story broke. Can only conclude that he is busy preparing his PSA holder collection for sale.

The criminal investigation is over. The only pending case surrounding the WIWAG scandal I know of is that filed by Real Legends.

The proceeds from the sales of the various divisions will also have to be used to take care of a settlement with Real Legends. Hall needs to write as large a check as possible to keep this one quite. Hope that he is not too attached to his home.

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#358654 - 03/04/04 09:42 AM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: botn]
carew4me
Just got here


Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 9

Offline
PSA: BAD
SGC: GOOD

If only life was as simple.

You guys just love the labels! (SGC only of course)
Anyone who doesn't agree with
the 3 rabid dogs here with their clear cut agenda's are immediatly
relegated to the status of PSA zombie. I think you do harm to regular collector's who would like to see a lively discussion of pro's and con's of all.

"Across the street" as you say, is the place where that debate happens.

I love the SGC holder (except the size). I have many SGC cards and
I am happy as can be with them and continue to buy SGC cards at 50% SMR
as long as they are centered well which I feel is the major weakness (No qualifiers), besides resell value.

Having said that...

I CHALLENGE ALL COLLECTORS!

Please review the posts on PSA boards and ask yourself:
-Make sure you look beyond the few posts that are dominated by the koolaid drinkers, as these clowns are on any messge board-

1. Are there more collectors here or there?
2. Are most of the subjects discussed informative and can I learn something?
3. Do the vast majority of posters seem to have an agenda that will taint my pursuit hobby knowledge?
4. Are the debates that center around grading companies inclusive of
the 3 major grading companies, their strengths and weakness, and
the benefits and drawbacks that come with choosing any one company?
5. Are there posters who are seem to be so completely indoctrinated AGAINST
a particular grading company that you feel as though their opinion may to subjective to trust?

NOW COME BACK HERE AND ASK THESE SAME QUESTIONS.

You cant get an education if their only telling you half of the story.

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#358655 - 03/04/04 09:54 AM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: carew4me]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

Offline

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#358656 - 03/04/04 11:54 AM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: srs1a]
carew4me
Just got here


Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 9

Offline
Scott,

That hurts! Tell me how I could have spiced it up to keep you awake.
Maybe you could give me a better method to make my point, after
all my only intention was to expose fellow collectors to the best source of
collecting information.

OH WAIT, YOU JUST HAVE!

Fellow collector's, please review the posts on the CU message boards,
I think you will find that your very own srsa1 posts on PSA boards
as frequently as here!

So, I recommend that we follow the lead of our buddy srsa1 and go where
the honest discussions are.

THANKS SCOTT!

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#358657 - 03/04/04 12:39 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: carew4me]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

Offline
carew4me,

You are a genius! You have managed to crack my code -- I am srs1a on this board, I am srs1a on the CU board and I am srs1a on eBAY. I never thought that anyone could possibly figure this out, but you did.

I don't want to blow anyone's cover, but a few other folks use this same code -- have you figured out which ones they are yet? It's a little tricky, but I have confidence in you.

Now, if you do a little more research, you might discover that I actually have sets registered both places -- shocking, isn't it?

Now do you have any other words of wisdom to share or are you done?

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#358658 - 03/04/04 12:49 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: srs1a]
carew4me
Just got here


Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 9

Offline
I've always been pretty sharp and not easily fooled

In fact you ol dog, you may have hit on yet another great idea,
Collect both, I do that too!

Scott, kindred sprit, how do convince the newbies and the zombies that
there are pos and negs with both companies?

I hope now that you will join me in advocating objective advice to collectors!

Thanks again, see you on CU boards!

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#358659 - 03/04/04 04:28 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: carew4me]
unamuzd1
Just got here


Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 7
Loc: ohio

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Having read both boards, I've got to say that I'm actually more comfortable posting over here. If you don't mind me snipping your post a bit (I recognize that it's bad form to take things out of context, but as your message will be right above mine, people can always scroll back up and see the full context to which I'm referring), I'll explain why.

Quote:

Anyone who doesn't agree with the 3 rabid dogs here with their clear cut agenda's are immediatly relegated to the status of PSA zombie. I think you do harm to regular collector's who would like to see a lively discussion of pro's and con's of all.

"Across the street" as you say, is the place where that debate happens.




It can't, though. Because PSA has banned individuals from those boards who have been critical of PSA policies. So you don't get the full "lively debate". You get the debate that includes the people who haven't made PSA/Joe mad at them. Even the people who want to adopt the "negative" side of a debate have to worry about whether they'll be banned for speaking their minds. You don't get "lively discussion" when one side of the discussion is worried about getting kicked off the boards.

I have questions about PSA policies. Every time I've posted and asked about them, I've been worried that the next time I went back, I wouldn't be able to log in. Further, anyone who posts something critical right now is being lumped into the "troll" category. It doesn't feel like a particularly welcoming community, for someone (like myself) who has just gotten back into card collecting in the last year and is trying to figure out whether this whole "graded card" thing is for him.

I get enough politics at work. I want to have fun with my cards.

Quote:

1. Are there more collectors here or there?



Quantity is, by and large, irrelevant. PSA has a larger market share. If you controlled for # of cards in a company's holders, I doubt you would find much difference in participation in their respective websites.

Quote:

2. Are most of the subjects discussed informative and can I learn something?



Define "most". I think there are a lot of off-topic subjects in both places. If by "most" you mean > 50%, then no. I think it's Sturgeon's Law that says (paraphrasing to be family-friendly), "90% of science fiction is crud - but then, 90% of everything is crud."

Quote:

3. Do the vast majority of posters seem to have an agenda that will taint my pursuit hobby knowledge?



Unfair question, again because of relative sample sizes and the fact that people who disagree with PSA (and thus might be deemed to have "agendas") get kicked off the PSA boards. However, I have found nothing over here that "taints my pursuit [of] hobby knowledge". My goal is to be an educated consumer. To do this, I will listen to both the good and the bad, and make decisions for myself. I find that easier to do over here.

Frankly, though, I've learned the most through the net54 boards.

Quote:

4. Are the debates that center around grading companies inclusive of
the 3 major grading companies, their strengths and weakness, and
the benefits and drawbacks that come with choosing any one company?
5. Are there posters who are seem to be so completely indoctrinated AGAINST
a particular grading company that you feel as though their opinion may to subjective to trust?



Your question 5 begs for a question 6, where we replace "AGAINST" with "FOR". Indoctrination works both ways. There are always going to be people who have biases either for or against a given topic. Some people will have strong opinions. Taken for what they are (opinions), that's not a problem.

I guess I also don't get the point of question 5. I don't "trust" anyone's opinions other than my own. I listen to what people have to say, I look at the available evidence, and I draw my own conclusions. I kind of thought that was how opinions were supposed to work. They're all inherently subjective.

Quote:

You cant get an education if their only telling you half of the story.



You're preaching to the proverbial choir. I suspect that most everyone who reads this board also looks at the PSA boards occasionally. I doubt the reverse is true. The folks you're talking to are more likely to be getting more than half the story than the folks who only hear what the PSA moderators decide is not inappropriately critical.

Unrelated to most of the above, a question that's important to me is this: Where do I feel welcome? I'm basically a shy person. I like smaller groups. I like to be able to hang out and listen and contribute every now and then, maybe ask a question or two, and not be berated if I prefer to use just my first name, or just the internet handle that I've been using for 10 years. I value my privacy, and don't like being called a "troll" just because I choose not to attach my last name to a post. But if you look at the PSA boards right now, that's what people who don't sign their names are being called.

I like being just Morrie, who collects cards. Over here, I feel like that's okay. Over there, right now, I don't.

Just Morrie
Collector of Cards

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#358660 - 03/04/04 06:13 PM Re: NEWEST POST FROM ACROSS THE STREET [Re: unamuzd1]
botn
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Santa Monica, CA

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I said it before and I say it again. It really is great to have a guy like Morrie here. He makes sense and is an icon for why we all collect.
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