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#48338 - 01/14/03 09:04 AM To all who say PSA is Easier on grades....
SGCRULES
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 21
Loc: Little Rock, Arkansas

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I have busted out several SGC cards and submitted them to PSA and here are the results.

76 Don Sutton SGC 92 now PSA 8
76 Willie McCovey SGC 92 now PSA 8
76 Rod Carew SGC 92 now PSA 8
76 ERA Leaders SGC 92 now PSA 8
76 Victory Ldrs. SGC 92 now PSA 8
76 RBI Ldrs. SGC 92 now PSA 8
76 Steals Ldrs. SGC 92 now PSA 8
76 RBI Ldrs. SGC 92 now PSA 8
76 Rich Gossage SGC 92 now PSA 8

76 Aaron RB SGC 84 now PSA 8PD
76 Willie Stargell SGC 92 Now PSA 7
76 Mike Schmidt SGC 86 now PSA 7
76 Brooks Robinson SGC 84 now PSA 7

76 Babe Ruth AS Sgc 88 Now PSA 8

80 Topps Fisk was SGC 96 now PSA 9

Something is wrong when 92's become PSA 8 and one 92 becomes a PSA 7.

So much for the predominant PSA = Easier Grades theory!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#48339 - 01/14/03 01:15 PM Why would you do this? [Re: SGCRULES]
estang
(S)uper Collector


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 496

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Your moniker is "SGCRULES" and you converted to PSA, which is an inferior product. Please explain.

I think that an SGC 88 or 92 would most often yield a PSA 8 and an SGC 84 or 86 a PSA 7. Your experiment just demonstrates to me the value add of half grades. I can see differences between an SGC 88 and 92 and now those differences are lost when generally lumped together in a PSA holder.

Unless you are looking for a consistent display factor with these 76 Topps cards, I just don't see why you would do this. I almost feel sorry for people that have such an investement in a PSA collection because once you get so far, you can't turn back to another product....UNLESS, another company makes it cost effective to do so and wants to beef their market share/name.

Enjoy your collection!

Erik
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Enjoy Your Collection & SKOL VIKINGS!

Erik

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#48340 - 01/14/03 02:27 PM Re: Why would you do this? [Re: estang]
SGCRULES
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 21
Loc: Little Rock, Arkansas

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Erik,

First of all I use both PSA and SGC.
Secondly, I did it to satisfy my curiosity.
And thirdly, Why would you feel sorry for someone who owns a lot of PSA cards? I GUARANTEE I can sell my PSA cards for more money in the market than I can an SGC card (assuming the same card and grade).

As I have stated before most of my PSA cards are for resale and most of my SGC cards are my personal collection.

Explain how PSA is an inferior product? That statement tends to be a generalization. If I am reselling cards and can get more profit from a PSA card, kindly explain your definition of inferior. Years ago when I was in college all the economics classes I remember stated that the objective of business is TO MAXIMIZE PROFIT. Please explain your reasoning that PSA is an inferior product in my business when I realize more profit selling them than SGC cards.

I only wish SGC cards would sell for nearly as much, but that is good as well because I have a hell of a nice vintage collection in SGC holders that I have bought for SIGNIFICANTLY less that a PSA counterpart.

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#48341 - 01/15/03 01:48 AM Re: Why would you do this? [Re: SGCRULES]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX

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Bill --

Without putting words in Erik's mouth, I think the point of his response was that the half-grade system used by SGC is more fair and accurate and a huge benefit to SGC-graded card collectors.

A PSA "soft 9" will not cross to an SGC 96. More likely, it will be recognized ... correctly ... as an SGC 92. Likewise, a PSA "very strong 8" ... as in, "why the hell wasn't this a 9???" ... would probably cross to an SGC 92.

To reverse directions then, it's easy to see why an SGC 92 would not convert to a PSA 9 ... it's not a mint card. More likely, it would convert to an 8.

The test I'd like to see would be: take a soft PSA 9, cross it to SGC and receive a 92, then cross it back to PSA. At each stage, leave the card in its current slab so that the grading company knows its been previously graded by a competitor. What would be the final PSA grade?

Regarding the case where an SGC 92 converted to a PSA 7 ... who knows. That may fall under the category of "every card company makes mistakes." Perhaps your own evaluation of the card will tell you whether the mistaken grading company is SGC or PSA.

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#48342 - 01/15/03 05:26 AM Re: To all who say PSA is Easier on grades.... [Re: SGCRULES]
Anonymous Unregistered



Many of your SGC 92 cards may been PSA 8.5 if they had the half grade system. I have busted out many PSA 8s only to get SGC 86 and SGC 84 grades. PSA is far more inconsistent than SGC and my experience is that PSA 8s generally have more corner wear than your average SGC 88 card. I have also examined more than a few PSA 9 cards only to find three corners with touches of wear.
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#48343 - 01/15/03 06:16 AM Re: To all who say PSA is Easier on grades.... [Re: SGCRULES]
Fabfrank
(S)uper Collector


Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 293

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I generally don't play the crossover game. If I get a card in a grade I like in a SGC or PSA holder, it stays there. The only cards I'll crossover are PSA OC's. I think PSA is really inconsistent with centering and arbitrarily throws out the OC qualifier.
As for SGC prices, I find it ironic that when I first started collecting graded cards I would pay a premium for an SGC card vs. an equal PSA card. It was about 1 1/2 -2 years ago when I noticed that SGC cards were going for a discount to PSA. I was ecstatic! I was now getting nicer cards for better prices. In hindsight, PSA's registry has to be the main reason for the pricing discrepancy. I think SGC has taken some aggressive steps toward correcting this, but it's going to be an up hill battle. With time on their side though, SGC should make many converts with it's consistency, service and pricing.

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#48344 - 01/15/03 06:27 AM Re: To all who say PSA is Easier on grades.... [Re: SGCRULES]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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Billy,

I am of the opinion that SGC and PSA are very similar in their grading...I believe that they have slightly different weightings for corners, centering, etc...so they are not identical...but awfully close.

The only card in your submission that looks funny to me in the 92 that became a 7. I assume that you are comfortable that nothing happened to the card when de-slabbing it (?). If so, then I agree with DE -- someone goofed, but it is not clear who.

My experience in crossing PSA-8's to SGC showed about 15%, or so, became 92's...so I think you have some high-end 8's now.

I found the Aaron card interesting -- from an 84 to an 8PD...seems to be fair -- I assume the card some "snow". I think I'd rather have the 84 given the general attitude concerning qualifiers.

I agree with you statements concerning resale, etc...and I agree that there is nothing "inferior" about PSA.

Again, I think your experiment confirms the near equivalency of the 2 services and thanks for sharing the data.


Scott


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#48345 - 01/15/03 11:54 AM Explanation for PSA being an "inferior product" [Re: SGCRULES]
Anonymous Unregistered



SGCRULES,

I created a thread under the "Great Grading Card Debate" that gives my opinion/insight on why I think PSA is inferior. A pro that I failed to mention for PSA is that for those who grade to resell, PSA becomes a better alternative to SGC because the market share of collectors that they have built.

As you mentioned the possibility of resell value to re-slabbing the cards from SGC to PSA, your reasoning resonates with me.

I think if you cross-over the SGC half-grade cards to PSA you will likely lose the nuances with whole number grading. Example: SGC 92 to a PSA 8 (soft).

I didn't mean to imply that you made a mistake. Rather, it would be a decision I woudn't make for my personal collection. Take a look at my other thread and let me know what you think of my pros & cons of the grading companies.

Take Care & Enjoy your collection!

Erik

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#48346 - 01/15/03 01:48 PM Re: To all who say PSA is Easier on grades.... [Re: SGCRULES]
Anonymous Unregistered



I just checked my latest SGC submission of 1971 baseball and found the cards were shipped today. The cards I sent included three PSA 9s with no qualifers - all are coming back as SGC 92/8.5. My submission also includes several PSA 8s that are coming back SGC 88 or SGC 92, one PSA 8 that is coming back an SGC 86 and a PSA 7 coming back an SGC 84. Very hard to get PSA 9s that cross-over to SGC 96.

Collecting 1971 baseball graded SGC 88 or better. Feel free to e-mail me at jftouchdown@yahoo.com with any cards you have for sale. Check out my 1971 baseball set on the registry - it is called Vintage Classic. Any card not graded SGC 88 or better I need.




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#48347 - 01/16/03 03:52 PM Re: To all who say PSA is Easier on grades....
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX

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Here's the results of my cross over submission ...

I sent 17 cards to SGC; 3 were 1962 Topps and 14 were 1969 Topps. All were graded PSA 9, and all were in their PSA holders. I requested a minimum cross over grade of SGC 96.

Of the 3 1962 Topps, 2 crossed to SGC 96s.

Of the 14 1969 Topps, 8 crossed to SGC 96s.

... and I'm very happy with those results.

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#48348 - 01/22/03 09:54 AM phatty's back and he's talkin smack! [Re: deadlyembrace]
Phatty
There's a fine line between clever and stupid - Spinal Tap


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 396
Loc: is phatty back?

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all that grading stuff is a bunch of hooey. just post your pics here and phatty will tell you what you've got. and i'll only charge you a dollar each time.


TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS - 2003 SUPERBOWL CHAMPS!
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#48349 - 01/22/03 04:13 PM Re: phatty's back and he's talkin smack! [Re: Phatty]
SGCRULES
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 21
Loc: Little Rock, Arkansas

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Hey Phatty,

Get a f'in life.

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#48350 - 02/24/03 10:28 PM more smack! [Re: SGCRULES]
Phatty
There's a fine line between clever and stupid - Spinal Tap


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 396
Loc: is phatty back?

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scgrules, i kinda like you so no insults, just a question. if i were a female and we mated, would our kids look more like chimpanzees or orangutans? thanks!
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#48351 - 02/26/03 12:42 PM Re: more smack! [Re: Phatty]
5_holes
Just got here


Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 2
Loc: Idaho

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go phatty....go phatty....
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I am insane!

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#48352 - 04/09/03 05:51 PM Re: more smack! [Re: Phatty]
Dungeon
If you have a dream about out-posting me, you better wake up and apologize.


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 2787
Loc: Still Married!

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where oh where did that fry box go? Bring back the fries phatty.
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"Flesh eating is unprovoked murder" - Ben Franklin

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#48353 - 09/24/03 06:01 PM Re: more smack! [Re: Dungeon]
Phatty
There's a fine line between clever and stupid - Spinal Tap


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 396
Loc: is phatty back?

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soltrick, don't fret. phatty's back! but phatty wonders...did you miss phatty more or his unusually attractive pet beaver named salami?

here's another pic of that rascal:

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