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#50881 - 01/19/03 04:24 AM Rough cut on vintage cards
stanthemanfan
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 10/28/02
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Does anyone have some insight on how SGC views factory rough cuts on vintage cards? Is it considered a defect?

I scanned the grading scale for any indication of rough cuts - but didn't see anything.

thanks

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#50882 - 01/19/03 07:45 AM Re: Rough cut on vintage cards [Re: stanthemanfan]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX

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Hey STMF --

Nope ... rough cuts on vintage cards are not considered defects. I once owned a 1954 Topps Johnny Sain - SGC 98 that had rough cuts along both vertical edges. It was a beauty.

I'd be happy to post a scan if you would like to see the card up close ...

LMK

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#50883 - 01/19/03 07:50 AM Re: Rough cut on vintage cards [Re: deadlyembrace]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
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DE > Post the pic, pls.
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---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#50884 - 01/19/03 08:03 AM Re: 1954 Topps Johnny Sain - SGC 98 [Re: vayank]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
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I sold this beauty in May, 2002 ...




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#50885 - 01/19/03 09:10 AM Re: 1954 Topps Johnny Sain - SGC 98 [Re: deadlyembrace]
stanthemanfan
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


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DE

Thanks for the info - beautiful card.

STMF

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#50886 - 01/19/03 10:04 AM Re: Rough cut on vintage cards [Re: stanthemanfan]
Anonymous Unregistered



I have received SGC 88 grades on 1971 topps baseball cards with rough cuts along one or two edges. However, if the rough cut results in chipping SGC will knock the grade down to and SGC 86 or even and SGC 84 depending on the severity of the chipping.

Building an SGC 88 and better 1971 baseball set. E-mail me at jftouchdown@yahoo.com with any cards you may have for sale. Check out my set on the SGC registry - called Vintage Classic - and you can see which cards I need.

Joe


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#50887 - 01/22/03 06:22 AM Re: Rough cut on vintage cards [Re: stanthemanfan]
hammer
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 11/19/02
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These cards were NOT cut at the factory with BLADES. They were cut with a vibrating WIRE, much like an ultra thin electric jigsaw. If the LONG edges are completely SMOOTH, you've got a problem (an "aftermarket" alteration). Interesting to note is that some of the sharpest of the out of the pack find cards, like the 1952T CASE that Alan Rosen was famous for in ca. 1988, ALL had "rough" or serrated edge cuts especially on the long edges. These were pulled from PACKS like that. 1952 to 1956 cards were produced in the same manner, except for the 1956 T VENDOR box cards made for loading VENDING machines. THESE were made with a gloss (yes!...GLOSSY 1956's!!!!), so that they would be able to slide more effectively from the stack loaded in the vending machine without hanging up. These 1956T cards were manufactured by O-P-Chee for Topps!!
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#50888 - 01/22/03 03:01 PM Another viewpoint [Re: stanthemanfan]
MW1
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I have always been of the opinion that a rough cut should lower the value/grade of a card, except where that quality is inherent to all examples of that specimen. Before the era of graded cards, this was also the thinking of some vintage collectors. I guess grading has kind of changed the way that some collectors now perceive this phenomenon.

Generally, most major grading companies will not deduct for a rough cut as long as the cut does not "run into" the edge so that "more than extraneous" material is missing. In other words, if the card has "extra" because of the cut, it's OK.

I don't know about other vintage collectors, but if I am given the choice between a 1956 Mickey Mantle with smooth edges or a 1956 Mantle with rough top and bottom edges, I'm going to pick the former, all other things being equal. At the very least, I would apply a "bonus" standard to cards that have more precise cutting if they typically appear in sets that do not normally exhibit this quality.

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#50889 - 01/22/03 07:14 PM Re: Another viewpoint [Re: MW1]
hammer
Carpal Tunnel


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It also seems that by chance, as in the case of the imaged 1954T SGC 98 card above, when the corners on a serrated cut are lucky enough to be located on a "node" or positive position of the "sine or sawtooth wave" cut edge, they survive with a sharp effect. When a corner ends on the negative wave of the line of cut, a blunted or less than NM look is the result. If you study the serrated cut on the edges of that SGC 1954 T card, you'll see that luckily, the corners all occurred on the node or positive part of the wave, BENEFITTING the pointed quality of the corners.
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#50890 - 01/23/03 12:12 AM Re: Another viewpoint [Re: hammer]
vayank
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In reply to:

I have always been of the opinion that a rough cut should lower the value/grade of a card, except where that quality is inherent to all examples of that specimen.




I agree completely. It's worse when the rough edge standard is applied differently to cards of differing eras. A rough edge not inherent to the issue and comes from one of era should be factored in the same as a "rough-edge" card of another era. Otherwsie you have a BVG, sliding scale type standards.

Does that make sense?
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#50891 - 01/23/03 07:00 AM Re: Another viewpoint [Re: vayank]
Fabfrank
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Registered: 06/11/02
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I'm not a fan of rough edges. When I see a SGC 92 or 96 card with rough edges I just think it should be a SGC 88 at best. The key point is that certain issues have rough edges and others don't. Fortunately for those collectors who don't mind them, SGC doesn't hold it against the card and is knowledgeable enough to know which issues it affects.
Good thread guys. New info with important facts. We need more threads like this.

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