#57590 - 02/02/03 05:58 PM
Re: THATS TRIMMED BABY!!! YEAH!!
[Re: Lothar52]
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Lothar52
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Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 240
Loc: Ohio, USA
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oh it break the heart to see mantle cards...trimmed or not.. in a PRO HOLDER.... and that thing is TRIMMED..why would u buy a trimmed cards like that?
Lothar52
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#57591 - 02/11/03 01:54 PM
Re: THATS TRIMMED BABY!!! YEAH!!
[Re: Lothar52]
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texanshouston
Just got here
Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 4
Loc: Spring, Tx. just N. of Houston
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Thats sure looks trimmed to me......
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#57593 - 02/11/03 03:28 PM
Re: THATS TRIMMED BABY!!! YEAH!!
[Re: Lothar52]
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Lothar52
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Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 240
Loc: Ohio, USA
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its trimmed cause there is NOT ENOUGH BORDER... take a look at my 7...
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#57595 - 02/11/03 03:36 PM
Explanation of "trimmed"
[Re: supapimp]
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MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
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Supapimp,
Here's another thread on the same subject.
Link to SGC thread
The reason some grading companies don't catch trimming/alterations is simply because their graders do not have enough experience. Some years and some brands have specific characteristics that distinguish them from others. The only way to gain enough knowledge to proper evaluate cards is to look at tons of them. The more you look at, the better grader you become. There's no other way to do it. I'm sure comics are roughly similar
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#57596 - 02/11/03 03:59 PM
A deeper explanation
[Re: supapimp]
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MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
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Supapimp,
Some years of vintage cards from certain companies included specimens of different sizes. During the entire "print run" for a given year, a company might produce cards using several different production and packaging methods (i.e., wax, rack, factory, vending, presentation). Some of these production methods resulted in larger or smaller sizes than a traditional wax pack issue. Therefore, size cannot always be the determining factor in assessing whether or not a card has been trimmed. In some cases, the cross section and edges of a card have to be thoroughly examined -- based on the known characteristics for that production issue.
Believe it or not, grading cards from some years and some series has become quite an exacting science and a vast store of knowledge is needed. That's why good graders are difficult to find in the hobby. And that's also why mistakes are often made by upstart or inexperienced grading companies.
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#57597 - 02/11/03 04:22 PM
Re: A deeper explanation
[Re: MW1]
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Lothar52
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Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 240
Loc: Ohio, USA
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MW
i have some PRO cards myself from my...retarded years... of collecting.. some are nice.. a 98 bowman refractor peyton manning RC... looks awesome.. no evidence of trimming i dont think... however i dont trust SGC when it come to giving it a fair shot.. so im going to take it out of the PRO holder before i send it in.. CAN SUGGESTIONS ON BUSTING OPEN A PRO/USA type HOLDER??
Lothar52
ive done psa with ease..... using a knife around edges--- on of those Collectors Edges [!@#%^&^] cards a few years ago lol
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#57598 - 02/12/03 01:23 AM
Re: A deeper explanation
[Re: Lothar52]
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srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.
Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY
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Lothar, I have no personal experience, but it is my understanding that this are tough nuts to crack (some discussion on this on the CU board a couple of months ago)....it might be worth a search.
Scott
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#57599 - 02/12/03 01:34 AM
Re: Explanation of "trimmed"
[Re: MW1]
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srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.
Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY
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MW, I think you are being very diplomatic on this issue. I think that certain companies simply do not care about trimming, restoration, etc...all they care about is a few bucks to slab a card.
If you folks haven't seen this "experiment" done by a member of the CU board, brucemo. IMHO, it's definately worth a look. His website has lots of other interesting stuff, as well. .
http://www.brucemo.com/cards/articles/pro/
Scott
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#57600 - 02/13/03 03:17 PM
Re: THATS TRIMMED BABY!!! YEAH!!
[Re: supapimp]
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mutantcollector
Collector
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 89
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supapimp,
Since the grading card boom of the late 90's many card grading companies have poped up (I know there are at least 50). Althought most grade on a scale of 1 to 10 this does not mean that mean one company's 10 is equal to another company's 10. The majority of these companys are based on the business plan that if you give higher grades to you submitter's the more they will submit. The submiters then turn around and sell there gem mint graded card to buyers who think they are getting a similar quality as a PSA gem mint 10 or SGC gem mint 98 (10). There are always new uninformed buyers for these sellers to rip off. These same grading companies have also learned their submitters don't like to have their cards returned as trimmed to them, so these grading companies conviently miss obviously trimmed and other restored cards.
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#57601 - 02/15/03 10:51 AM
Re: Explanation of "trimmed"
[Re: srs1a]
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MW1
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Registered: 07/30/02
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Scott,
You are quite right. There are some grading services that do not make a priority of detecting and rejecting trimmed cards. In that sense, perhaps the hobby sees these companies as authenticators rather than accurate graders. Although in this area (authentication), there seems to be a few problems too.
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#57602 - 02/16/03 01:48 PM
Re: A deeper explanation
[Re: srs1a]
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Lothar52
enthusiast
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 240
Loc: Ohio, USA
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I found out how to crack the USA/PRO case and did so for almost all of the PRO/USA cards i had bought about 4 years ago before PSA and SGC cards came down in price with the fall of the "market"...
The PRO 10s look to be 9s in some cases, but more likely to be 8s. The PRO 9.5s to 9.0s look to be 7s
its ok, im not cryings.. i leanred my lesson and my PRO cards were NOT the majority of my collection..just a few here and there. Luckily NONE were vintage..all were CURRENT stars so trimming is not evident and sizes concur as i checked them with a standard...
SO... off to SGC they go to be finally respected as a CARD in a SGC holder
Lothar52
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