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#69608 - 03/02/03 11:48 AM Red Man Crossovers
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

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Amid all the rumors and fun at the Ft Wash show I attempted to crossover
some red man tobacco cards that I collect. This included the 55 set that
I've now committed with Sgc holders (along with the 54).

Here are the results:

I submitted a total of 31 cards.

3 were reholdered to the newer style holder from the mid style one. A success.

4 were raw purchases from a couple dealers. All were from 1955. I reviewed
about 100 red man cards and picked the best of what I needed. Two were
graded at the show as Sgc 88. The others have not been graded but I expect
one to grade Sgc 86.

8 1954's were submitted. 6 Psa 8's and 2 Psa 7's. 3 of the 8's crossed to
Sgc 88 and both Psa 7's crossed to Sgc 84's. Note to those who were
thinking about the consistency and accuracy since Derek left. I submitted
2 8's that Derek had rejected 3 months ago. They were again rejected
by the Sgc graders (Bob and ? - sorry don't know names yet). A small
sample size but still interesting results. I'm not saying the graders will
grade everything exactly as Derek. That would be dumb on my part.

16 1955's were submitted. All 16 were Psa 8's. 3 were bumped to Sgc
92's (two commons and a Pee Wee Reese). I'm thrilled and so happy.
These are my first bumps of any kind in the two-three years I've been
collecting graded cards. 9 cards were converted to Sgc 88's. 4 did not
cross. Including one that was found to have a crease in the back of the
card. I found it when I got home. Very very hard to spot. I have no clue
why 2 of these cards did not cross. To me they look better than a couple
that did. They must be borderline cards.

So to conclude 17 out of 24 crossed over to similar or better Sgc grades
or 70%. I did not plan on crossing anything to lower grades until a certain
collector submits his final cards. Then I'll see what's left.

On a positive, none of my cards in Psa holders were found to be trimmed
this time. The cards that did not cross were either graded when Psa just
started grading red man's or very recently. I guess standards were a lot
looser in the beginning and I'm not sure where they are now in terms
of Psa grading red man tobacco cards.

Unfortunately I did not keep the cracked Psa cases to display on this
forum. Nor will I send the cert#'s back to Psa since I could care less
about the accuracy of their pop reports. I know for a fact that Sgc's is wrong
too as no one submitts the cards they pop from Sgc holders. I keep
a pop analysis as a guide. Currently, the two pop reports combined show
about 880 graded nm/mt or better. It's less to those looking for guidance.
Anyhow I did not keep the Psa labels this time.

Without displaying too much of the same sarcasm that was displayed
on the Psa board when someone cracked out a couple 1968 Topps in Sgc holders
(not Scott - srs1a), I can honestly say that my cards are happy to be in their
new home! Especially since the Sgc holder is THE BEST in the graded
card hobby!

Special thanks to Sean and Scott at the show. I think I made Scott a little
late for a Friday night with friends. I think he still had fun.

Happy Collecting,

Tony Conte (aconte)



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#69609 - 03/02/03 12:07 PM phatty wonders... [Re: aconte]
Phatty
There's a fine line between clever and stupid - Spinal Tap


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 396
Loc: is phatty back?

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being from philadelphia, phatty wants to know where scott went with his friends. phatty hopes they picked a good restaurant. phatty wonders what they ordered for dinner. phatty wonders why he wasn't invited. phatty likes bbq ribs smothered with a tangy cilantro & pepper sauce.
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#69610 - 03/02/03 01:07 PM Re: Red Man Crossovers [Re: aconte]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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aconte,

Some great info!

My guess is that you probably have a better "feel" for Red Mans than most other vintage collectors. Perhaps that is the reason you did so well on crossovers -- you only purchased high-end examples and avoided those cards that you judged to be altered or over-graded.

The 1955 Reese is a gorgeous card. It is no small achievement to have an SGC 92! Have you registered your set yet? If not, send me an updated list and I'll pull some cards for you and put them in my next submission. I definitely agree with you that Red Mans look extremely sharp in SGC holders!

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#69611 - 03/02/03 02:03 PM Re: Red Man Crossovers [Re: MW1]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

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MW1,

Thanks.

I did update my sets this morning. I also added some cards from 52.
But my main focus is the 54 + 55 sets but I won't turn down nice Sgc
red man's I need from any years.

Hopefully, the updates will show in a couple days. If not let me know
what you have available or I could send a list of what I need.

aconte



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#69612 - 03/15/03 10:14 AM Re: Red Man Crossovers [Re: aconte]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

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Just in case anyone is interested (besides me ), I loaded my new photos
today on my 54 and 55 red man sets.

aconte
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#69613 - 03/15/03 11:20 AM Re: Red Man Crossovers [Re: aconte]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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I'm headed to see them now -- I want to see your new 92's! Scott
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#69614 - 03/15/03 11:27 AM Re: Red Man Crossovers [Re: aconte]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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Tony, your sets are stunning! Everyone should go and take a look -- the 55's are really smoking. I think a real testament to both of these sets is that your weighted averages are higher than the straight average -- so the tough cards are the best in the set. Incredible stuff. Congratulations.

Scott

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#69615 - 03/16/03 03:50 PM Re: Red Man Crossovers [Re: srs1a]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

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Scott,

Thanks for the compliments. It is appreciated!

aconte
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#69616 - 05/04/03 07:09 AM Re: Red Man Crossovers [Re: aconte]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

Offline
I upgraded my 55 set since the last few months. Finding cards I need has
gotten tougher. I've gotten gun shy to pull the trigger on recently graded
Psa cards and try for crossovers. I'm sure most of their cards are ok.
But the cost of a Psa 8 not crossing can be expensive.

I added five cards and upgraded two from the 55 set!

Two adds were from raw submissions.
Three adds were from Psa crossovers.
Two upgrades were from Psa crossovers.
One card did not cross to due a very small crease on the back of the card.
We'll see if Psa can see it. I'm not holding my breath.

The set should show updated with scans in a few days I hope.

The Fort Washington show this weekend was not too exciting. Did not
see many red man cards. I was there Friday night for only an hour or two.
I thought about heading back late Sunday to check it out again but
decided not to go.
I got the impression many are gearing up for the National in Atlantic City this summer.

aconte

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#69617 - 05/04/03 07:54 AM Spill The Beans [Re: aconte]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

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Tony --

Don't hold back....tell us the rumors, the gossip, the dirt....
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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