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#72164 - 03/09/03 04:48 PM Card Grading- SGC,PSA,BVG
jdj26
Just got here


Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 1

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Hello,

I just joined this forum eventhough a have been watching both the SGC and PSA message boards for a few months and I just had a few basic questions. I have been collecting graded cards for about a year and I have noticed a few things.
PSA - most expensive, nice holders, Awful Qualifiers OC,ST,MC - WIWAG contraversy, has own magazine called Sports Market Report, with prices quoted as SMR $300 example for cards graded by PSA.
BGS/BVG- BVG very nice holders, 4 subgrades, considered leninent graders, own magazine with their prices = conflict of interest. Less expensive than PSA except for 9 and 9.5 grades.
SGC - nice holders, 100 point scale, considered bad graders in regards to corners and graded "trimmed cards" much less expensive than PSA and BVG.
I decided to start my collection in 1980 and head backwards and collect the key cards in each set usually RC. I bought the Henderson RC PSA 9, and the Ozzie Smith RC PSA 9 - my best card but very expensive. When I hit 1978 I ran into a problem. The Molitor RC was selling at around $300 in PSA 9, $250 in BVG 9, but last month a saw a beautiful Molitor RC on EBAY SGC 96 Mint 9 and I bought it for only $152. Why did this card sell for such a low price? I also bought the Murray RC in BVG 9 and most recently the 1977 Dawson RC in SGC 92 which has great corners and looks just as good as many PSA 9 cards that I have seen. Many people on the PSA message board slam SGC and say that they don't consider centering when grading and that they grade cards that have been cut from sheets, but I am hesitant to buy PSA cards after the WIWAG scandal. Should I just buy the cards that look the best to me regardless or who grades it, or should I stick with one company for all my purchases? I just feel like with the current prices of SGC graded cards it just seems too good to be true. Graded cards at very low prices. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks,

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#72165 - 03/09/03 05:13 PM Re: Card Grading- SGC,PSA,BVG [Re: jdj26]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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jdj26,

Welcome aboard! I've posted this link previously, but I think it addresses many of your concerns and redirects some of your comments about grading and value.

Link -- SGC article and values

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#72166 - 03/09/03 05:19 PM Re: Card Grading- SGC,PSA,BVG [Re: jdj26]
chuckster
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 83
Loc: Louisiana

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Obviously, most of us on this board would tell you that SGC is a high quality grading company. Though I prefer SGC, I would have no problem buying cards in any of the holders you mentioned if the card and the price was right. SGC cards are a great deal in many cases. As you see more examples of SGC graded cards, you can judge the quality for yourself. I think BGS and PSA may be a bit more well known (Beckett because they have had a popular magazine so long, PSA because they have been grading so long). This may be one reason why they sell for healthy prices. I think SGC is really gaining respect as more collectors see the quality of the product for themselves. I consider nice SGC graded cards that sell for less a good bargain. Welcome to the boards!
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#72167 - 03/10/03 01:32 AM Re: Card Grading- SGC,PSA,BVG [Re: jdj26]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX

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Hi jdj26 --

And welcome to the boards.

In reply to:

SGC - ... considered bad graders in regards to corners and graded "trimmed cards" ...




I suspect you developed that opinion from some flaming commentary found across the street. Generally, you will find very pro-SGC opinion here (... it goes without saying ...), but I thought I'd give you the benefit of my experience anyway.

I've been collecting very highly graded (by SGC) cards from the 1960's since the summer of 1998 and have never once heard of a case in which the company missed a trimmed card. I stand to be corrected, but I think that accusation, especially if it originated from the "other guys", is baseless.

Also, the number of mint and gem mint cards in my collection is approaching 400 and NONE of them have a problem with missed corner grades.

Some of the cards graded in SGC's early years are not centered as nicely as I would like, but corners are always sharp.

Hope this helps.




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#72168 - 03/10/03 01:47 AM SGC -- the new "Gold Standard" of grading companies [Re: deadlyembrace]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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I think Mark is right on target with his analysis. Four hundred Mint condition (SGC 96) cards -- I would say that's a fairly significant sample size. If there is one thing SGC is known throughout the hobby for, it's the strict and conservative evaluation of corners. In fact, the most recent buzz from the eBay forums supports this contention.

SGC is quickly developing into the "Gold Standard" of grading companies with it's consistent grading -- even PSA collectors are beginning to purchase SGC graded cards for their own collections.

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#72169 - 03/10/03 02:03 AM Re: Card Grading- SGC,PSA,BVG [Re: jdj26]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

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jdj26,

Welcome to the boards. In many cases Sgc graded cards have sold for less
than Psa graded cards. However, depending on the card the opposite
can be true.

The one thing I would mention if it hasn't been is to be careful if you are
buying cards graded by Sgc in the first generation type holders. They
are the ones with large SGC lettering on the label. These have a tendency
to be overgraded and sell for less. The current holders with the split grades
are prefered. And keep in mind some of the early Psa grades might be
overgraded too. You really need to look at the card if possible.

Second, collect what makes you happy. I don't think you have to stick
with one company's holder. It's up to you.

Buy the card, not the holder. Good luck.

aconte
_________________________

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#72170 - 03/10/03 02:06 AM Re: Card Grading- SGC,PSA,BVG [Re: jdj26]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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Hello jdj26 and welcome to the board.

With all of the caveats given above (like, this is an SGC board....), I believe that the "word on the street" about SGC is that they are corner freaks and easier on centering than PSA. I'm pretty sure that I don't agree about centering....but, that's another story!

I think that you are safe dealing with the folks that you mentioned and keeping your options will probably make your life a bit easier in the long run.

I believe that 77s has previously posted some very detailed observations on exactly how the various companies grade (corners, centering, image quality, etc, etc), but I cannot find it now...perhaps he will share it again.


Scott


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#72171 - 03/10/03 03:46 AM Re: Card Grading- SGC,PSA,BVG [Re: srs1a]
vintagecollector
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 24

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Hello,

I use both companies as well. I have lots of graded cards from both. I believe SGC is easier on centering and tougher on corners. SGC has the better holder and offers really low prices and great customer service.

If you are building a collection to keep I think they are both about equal,but if you are looking to resale I think the other guys USUALLY sell for more.

VC

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#72172 - 03/10/03 03:48 AM Re: Card Grading- SGC,PSA,BVG [Re: aconte]
stanthemanfan
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 366

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aconte

In a previous post on your latest Redman cross-overs - you mentioned being successful going from an older SGC labeled holder to the current. What did you actually do?

I have few cards that I would like to update/consolidate to the new holder. Can I submit the cards under a "reholder" invoice, where, if the card grades the same or higher - it will be encapsulated under the new invoice. This how I understand that service level.

Or can I submit the cards with a min SGC grade indicated and consider the cards as cross-overs? Same as a PSA, BGS, etc.

Does this make sense?

STMF

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#72173 - 03/10/03 04:29 AM Re: Card Grading- SGC,PSA,BVG [Re: stanthemanfan]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

Offline
STMF,

The holders I had reholdered were in the second generation. I reviewed
the cards too to make sure they had a good shot to cross before I bought.

I did cross some of the first generation holders a couple years
ago. The results were not to favorable. Losing anywhere from a 1/2 grade
to two full grades. I was unfamiliar with the holders back then. But I
want my cards graded accurately so I had them regraded.

Anyhow, to answer your question, yes you can submit under a reholder
service for the Sgc cards. That's what I did in the other thread.

For the Psa cards, I submit under cross with
a minimum grade or do not crack. I've done most of these at the shows.
The cards and sets I've done make it not important to see what level
of service I'm under. I don't think they would qualify for the crossover
service if you want a minimum grade. Maybe Sean or someone else
can clarify.

aconte -edit since I can spell to save my arse!


Edited by aconte (03/10/03 04:31 AM)
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