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#72923 - 03/14/03 12:48 AM Re: Let's make the best of the situation [Re: vayank]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX

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Wading through alot of the back-and-forth conversation on the SGC boards HAS gotten to be tedious and painful, these days, but when you step back and take a look at the big picture ... the questions that keeps bubbling up to the surface are, "Why?" and "Why now?".

Sure, the content of what MW1 posts is provacative and he, as one of the hobby's lightening rods, is sure to attract as much negative as positive response ... but why? ... and why has it invaded the SGC boards just recently?

All topics relating to PSA, the major competitor of SGC, are relevant on these boards. While I would never personally own a PSA card as a permanent part of my collection, other SGC collectors do, and therefore, there is reason, here in SGC land, to be interested in the corporate health of PSA, the competitive balance between the two companies, the relative values of SGC/PSA cards, etc. So, the more information about the competition, the better.

There is no denying that, without the many PSA-related threads MW1 has posted on these boards, SGC-only collectors like me ... who prefer to stay away from the boards across the street ... would have no clue about the recent problems at PSA. Yes, the info is presented from MW1's perspective, but was it rebutted by any of the recent PSA visitors to these boards? No!! Instead, there has been a flurry of personal attacks on MW1 as though, by tearing into his character, it would somehow invalidate the substance of his posts.

That is a tactic reminiscent of the gutter politics in this country that we are all subjected to on a daily basis. It does not inspire belief.

And am I the only member of these boards who gets the impression that the sudden, recent, steady stream of MW1 slams is somehow coordinated? Is this PSA piling on at its finest? If so, you have to wonder why ...

Anyone can post anything on message boards. It's up to the reader to apply the smell test and separate the grains of truth from the mountains of BS. MW1 has reported upheaval in the PSA world, provided editorial comment, and made predictions about PSA's future. Perhaps the levels of resulting backlash he has received are evidence that his posts have a ring of truth to them.

And perhaps the PSA naysayers have sizeable investments in the PSA product that they are desperately trying to protect.

Perhaps PSA ... the company ... sees MW1 as a threat ...


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#72924 - 03/14/03 01:00 AM Re: Let's make the best of the situation [Re: deadlyembrace]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

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DE> RIGHT ON!
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#72925 - 03/14/03 01:13 AM Re: Let's make the best of the situation [Re: vayank]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

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DE >

if you think about it, the GA buys out SGC rumor really caught steam a second time in the aftermath of the ongoing WIWAG scandal.
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#72926 - 03/15/03 01:42 AM Re: No point to this post. *DELETED* [Re: Architecht]
Bugaboo
Psychoboo


Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 13674
Loc: Running up the clock.

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Post deleted by SeanSGC
_________________________

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#72927 - 03/15/03 06:57 AM Re: No point to this post. [Re: Bugaboo]
vintagecollector
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 24

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Re: No point to this post. [re: Architecht]
03/15/03 04:42 AM Edit Reply




In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pfffft.

If someone starts a thread that has no other purpose than to bash another member, it's gone. For instance, I also removed one of MW1's threads at the same time.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


To put it bluntly Arch......that's the biggest load of [!@#%^&^] I've read today. I've seen you give MW1 the SAME preferential treatment when he infests the comic boards and its hard to choke down all the manure of you trying to defend him. Why does this guy constantly get by with this garbage and you constantly let him without giving HIM a strike? Makes me wonder.

As I stated before, He is the "poster-boy". Welcome to fair and accurate posting. This board reminds me of FOX News

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#72928 - 03/15/03 11:07 AM Re: No point to this post. [Re: Bugaboo]
Architecht
Web Architect


Registered: 01/25/02
Posts: 4335
Loc: Chicago area

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Whatever. I am constantly inundated from both sides of every conflict with complaining. It's inevitable. I get PMs and notifications from person A explaining to me what a biased jerk I am for siding with B, and PMs and post notifications from person B explaining to me what a biased jerk I am for siding with A.

And believe me, this conflict is no exception.

Regardless, I will and do implement what I think is right. Being uninvolved in the collecting world, and not a direct employee of any of the grading companies, and not much of a poster on these boards regarding things other than moderation I would venture to say that I'm a bit more qualified than any of the complainers to remain impartial. From an objective view point, every one of you complainers are by definition far more biased and unable to view things impartially than I am just by the nature of your involvement in the debates, the boards and the hobbies. You might want to think pretty hard about that, because it's a pretty clear set of conditional facts with very obvious effects on your points of view versus mine.

(shrug)

Arch
_________________________
  • Hour by hour resolve firmly, like a Roman and a man, to do what comes to hand with correct and natural dignity, and with humanity, independence, and justice. Allow your mind freedom from all other considerations.- Marcus Aurelius-Roman Emperor A.D. 121-180

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#72929 - 03/15/03 03:10 PM Re: No point to this post. *DELETED* [Re: Architecht]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

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Post deleted by dena
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#72930 - 03/17/03 12:29 AM Re: No point to this post. [Re: MW1]
Bugaboo
Psychoboo


Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 13674
Loc: Running up the clock.

Offline
To all:

I'm not upset.......I just know what kind of a liar that MW1 truly is. Not to mention that he is so arrogant and condescending that he truly deserves whatever he gets in here.

Also......the p.m. I sent to him was in response to the perverted one he sent to me FIRST. He's such a liar that it's almost comical.

Do you remember the one I'm talking about MW1?? You know.......the one that dealt with male genitalia.

And just in case you try to deny it you pervert (which you always do)......I've still got the original Private Message from you to prove it.

And for anybody that's interested in seeing the P.M. he sent to me.........just drop me a P.M. and I'll forward it on to you.
_________________________

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#72931 - 03/17/03 07:21 AM Re: No point to this post. [Re: Bugaboo]
Architecht
Web Architect


Registered: 01/25/02
Posts: 4335
Loc: Chicago area

Offline
Here's a prime example of the kind of senseless garbage that people post, and if it gets pulled both participants will profess to have no idea why it's pulled. Both, if I pull these posts, will/would accuse me of pandering to their "opponent".

If I pull Bugaboo's post accusing me of giving MW1 preferential preferential treatment, Bugaboo will no doubt find that to be evidence of preferential treatment. So might others in the resulting outcry.

MW1's response is then a prime example of pork-barrelling wherein he takes the opportunity to refute some things that are said about him, but manages to include some offensive comments, turning his defense into an offense. He does this in the context of a violation that Bugaboo has on record, and therefore it's hard to pull the post since it refers to something that did happen. If I pull it, MW1 will claim that I didn't allow him to defend himself against accusations of preferential treatment. Really the problem would have been the WAY he posted, not the substance of defending himself.

Now Bugaboo has replied and I have no doubt that this will get reported and MW1 will want it pulled. Whatever.

Both parties will, I guarantee it, see themselves as the innocent defenders of their reputations here. This is how the Hatfields and the McCoys ended up killing each other for years without any idea how it get started, but each convinced they were the righteous ones.

Once again we've ended up in the gutter somehow. This is a relatively tricky situation, because it all starts with MW1 making certain claims about grading companies, and other people wanting to respond to those claims, and it seems to inevitably escalate into the above kind of trash. It is difficult to contain this kind of an arguement without seeming to needlessly squash what might otherwise be valid debate of a collecting topic.

In general I prefer to give posts that contain some redeeming elements the benefit of the doubt in order to prevent causing a situation where it looks like censorship in the practice of these boards. Censorship is not the practice of these boards. Laissez-faire board moderation is my preferences with the intention of letting people work out their own issues, especially when those issues begin with and involve genuine collecting-interest topics. However, this series of issues has proven itself to be capable of devolving to 95% junk and 5% value.

At this point, the pork barrelling is over. If anything on this topic is posted that contains any element of personal insult designed to smear other posters, it will be pulled and strikes will be issued.

Feel free to debate the LOGIC of any claims made regarding the hobby. Feel free to discuss the merits or lack of merits of grading companies. Feel free to post any rational opinion you have that doesn't smear other members. But this personal stuff has got to be dropped.

It's not often that a topic becomes inflammatory enough that it merits its own more intense standard of post monitoring. Congratulations on spoiling this topic. This is fair warning. I don't care if your post is 99% clear discussion of hobby topics with just little tiny 1% of smear. You will lose the post. If you respond to a post that contains inflammatory personal comments, you may lose that post as well, as the practice will be to pull the offending post and all of its replies - that may not be a reflection on the responding post. You may have just gotten caught up in the junk.

I hope over time to relax this standard to a more reasonable one that treats the participants as adults able to govern the maturity of their exchanges themselves, and to self-correct the trend of the the posts when they start to go off the deep end. Nothing annoys me more than having to intercede like this.

This thread is locked.

Arch
_________________________
  • Hour by hour resolve firmly, like a Roman and a man, to do what comes to hand with correct and natural dignity, and with humanity, independence, and justice. Allow your mind freedom from all other considerations.- Marcus Aurelius-Roman Emperor A.D. 121-180

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