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#9029 - 10/01/02 04:35 AM GA has PSA Heads Spooked
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
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I've been reading the other Board and it has become clear to me that PSA heads are spooked by GA. Spooked in a way that BGS or SGC can never spook them. People talk smack about Baker and Rocchi on the one hand, but on the other those guys were significant and pioneering figures at PSA -- and that is what has PSA heads spooked.

Everytime they see a GA holder, a heart skips a beat, a shred doubt infects. It's like on some instinctive level, they feel the heart and soul of PSA is now at GA. That must be a tough feeling if you have spent 1000's on PSA slabs.

For me, my hobby life is alot easier -- SGC just grades cards and does it better than anyone. I love their holder. They enjoy respect in the market place. I don't care if SGC is ever "#1." I just want SGC to continue their excellence in grading.

edited for bad syntax.
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9030 - 10/01/02 05:16 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: vayank]
Anonymous Unregistered



HELLO EVERYONE... I HAVE A LOADED QUESTION, HAS ANYONE EVER EXPERIENCED A CROSS OVER FROM BGS TO SGC.. I'M LIKE MOST ON THIS FORM, I LOVE THE SGC HOLDERS, THE SERVICE, (YOU CAN EVEN TALK TO A PERSON NOT A MACHINE). ON A RESALE AND VALUE ISSUE ONLY, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT SENDING CROSS OVERS TO SGC..I HAVE A MONTANA ROOKIE BGS 8, A ELWAY AND MARINO ROOKIE BGS 8, AND A WALTER PAYTON BGS 7 (NOT A BVG) DO YOU THINK THEY'D GRADE
HIGHER?? THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK 96'S TO BE WORTH MORE
MONEY... LIKE I'VE SAID, SGC' S MY FAVORITE, I'VE HAD OVER 30 CARDS
GRADED LAST MONTH, BUT I'VE NEVER HAD ONE RE-GRADED.. JUST LOOKING FOR SOME HELP----THANKS


Edited by cspeier (10/01/02 05:17 AM)

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#9031 - 10/01/02 06:16 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX

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Hi cspeier --

Welcome aboard.

There has been some discussion of cross-over grading in another thread. Check out: Crossing Over to SGC, What would be best off brand Grader??

Coincidentally, I am presently conducting my own cross-over grading experiment. Once concluded, I post results on the other thread.



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#9032 - 10/01/02 07:13 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
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I crossed over 5 1954 red man tobacco cards from Psa 8 holders to Sgc 88
holders. I'm keeping my cards. I believe the switch will have little affect when
I try to resell these cards many many (I hope many) years from now. It's not
a concern for me.

I did it because that is what I wanted to do. I'll enjoy the chase more
going after this set in certain grades and in certain holders! For the 54's
my choice was SGC!

aconte
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#9033 - 10/01/02 07:20 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: aconte]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
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Back to the thread...

I don't like the dealer(s) and Global relationship. It definitely favors the
dealer not the customer. There is a Davalillo on the other board that has
made it clear dealers will lose his business if they continue to increase
the Gai inventory. I agree with this stance 100%.

I prefer Sgc and also Psa depending on the set. I've seen such a forceful
push of Gai upon me that I don't like it. I will never collect cards in Gai
holders! And probably never buy cards in Gai holders.

I've also heard too much about the good-ol-boy network that existed when
Baker and Rocci headed up Psa. Too many questions and too many
other and better choices!

aconte
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#9034 - 10/01/02 07:28 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: aconte]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
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Aconte >

I totally respect that man's stance. Myself, I only buy SGC, unless to plan at some point to cross over. I appreciate the brand loyalty. Still, I think "spooked" is the right word.
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9035 - 10/01/02 07:50 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: vayank]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


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vayank,

Annoyed and nervous are not bad words either!

aconte

Sorry - Thanks vayank.


Edited by aconte (10/01/02 08:33 AM)
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#9036 - 10/01/02 08:18 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: aconte]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
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Aconte -- Do you mean "are not" instead of "are" ??
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9037 - 10/01/02 08:34 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: vayank]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
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vayank,

Sorry about the typo. It's hard to work and read two forum threads
at the same time.

aconte
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#9038 - 10/02/02 09:19 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: aconte]
Fabfrank
(S)uper Collector


Registered: 06/11/02
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As I mentioned on that other forum. I collect PSA and SGC cards because it makes me feel comfortable. I also collect Beckett but have noticed that I haven't bought a BGS card in months. I get more value for my dollar with SGC. I won't buy GAI (whether to collect or crossover) because they don't make me feel comfortable.
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#9039 - 10/18/02 04:56 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: Fabfrank]
Anonymous Unregistered



There seems to be much more GAI stuff around all of the sudden. Some are getting alright money on ebay. I like the light holder and label on the top for set collectors. The black border (like SGC) makes the card jump out at you.
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#9040 - 10/21/02 04:32 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 222
Loc: Summer of '77

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BigRed, Welcome! GAI is solid. They're struggling, but the product is strong. How long they can stick around...who knows. If they were able to pry Charlie away from PSA...now that would spook the masses...the holder is the second best looking in the hobby
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#9041 - 10/26/02 10:07 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: vayank]
Anonymous Unregistered



I have met the CEO on down at Collectors Universe. They are anything but spooked. They consider themselves the dominant player in grading. They are shooting for the "sight unseen" market. They have streamlined the grading process and do it more profitably then anyone. That gives them staying power.

That is not to mention the GA guys were crooks with tons of back door deals and massive misgrades that still circulate. They would never had been around had the current CEO Roger Johnson been in charge...

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#9042 - 10/26/02 10:17 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
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I am pleased the outgoing CEO is bullish. I was referring to a number of posts I had seen at the other message board contemperaneous to the original post in the thread.
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9043 - 10/26/02 04:55 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
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Roger! Good to have you aboard the SGC train! Don't kid yourself, you are spooked. Now register.

Edited by 77s (11/01/02 05:58 AM)
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#9044 - 11/01/02 06:03 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
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Loc: Summer of '77

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By the way, Roger, what the heck does "streamlined the grading process" mean, anyway? Giving 10's to Dslsports? Elaborate, please.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot...register.
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#9045 - 11/05/02 06:33 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
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I did a quick look at eBAY auctions to estimate what market share each of the major grading companies have in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. I estimate market share by the percentage of cards for auction by each grading company (far from exact, I'm sure...but sort of interesting, anyway).

(1) the combination of PSA, SGC, BGS/BVG and GAI have >94% of the market in the 50's, 60's and 70's!...this drops to 80% in the 80's and about 40% in the 90's -- so, the offbrands have no pressence in the vintage market -- no suprise here.

(2) PSA dominates the vintage market -- 88% in the 50's, 79% in the 60's and 75% in the 70's. SGC, BGS/BVG, and GAI basically split up the rest in the 50's (2.6%, 2.6%, and 2.2%, respectively) and also in the 60's (5.6%, 4.0%, and 5.1%). SGC's best decade is the 70's (I'd wager that their best year is 77 based on what I see here!) where they've got 12.9% to 5.7 for BVG/BGS to 1% for GAI.

(3) BGS picks up steam in the 80's and 90's...while SGC drops a bit and GAI disappears.

Based on what I see here...I don't see a reason for PSA to be spooked by GAI.

Scott

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#9046 - 11/05/02 06:57 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: srs1a]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
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Eyeopening.

Good job!!


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#9047 - 11/05/02 07:13 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
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S >

Thanks for the leg work. It must those '77 loonies pushing those 1970's #'s for SGC!!! But I thought you were a SGC guy??? LOL
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9048 - 11/06/02 12:49 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: vayank]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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yank,

I'm a card guy -- and love a sweet card no matter what holder it's in! I was kind of suprised by PSA's apparent dominance...I thought that both SGC and BGS would have taken bigger chunks out of them...and was also suprised that GAI had done as well as they have in the (early) vintage market.

Of course, this analysis ignores bozo's like me who have never sold a card in their life and might be better described as a hoarder rather than a collector!

Scott

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#9049 - 11/06/02 01:11 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
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77's,

I'm interested in the connection between dslsports and PSA that you imply. What's the deal here?

thanks!

Scott

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#9050 - 11/06/02 01:38 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: srs1a]
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 222
Loc: Summer of '77

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S,
Before I unload both barrels...Ever bought a PSA- graded card from those folks?
77s
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#9051 - 11/06/02 04:13 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: srs1a]
Anonymous Unregistered



I am not certain, but 77 might be talking about the great grades they get. They get nines and tens from psa that look like sevens. I wont buy any REDS cards from them without a large scan. I email them and they never respond anyways.
I collect psa cards (and sgc) but psa gives grades away IMO to volume submitters like dslsports. I'm sure there are others but dsls cards are overgraded.
77 if wrong, i'm sorry. Have you noticed their grades? Was that you who won the Geronimo from 77?

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#9052 - 11/07/02 01:16 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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77s,

Yes, I have...but it was quite a while ago and I don't remember being enraged by the quality of the cards.

I've certainly gotten my share of "stinkers" in PSA holders, but never coupled it with a specific dealer and assumed it was just poor quality control...or what ever you want to call it.

I also think that there is an element of time in graded cards -- I started using PSA about 7 or 8 years ago and used them for about 4-5 years. I can say with absolute certainty that their standards changed very significantly over that time (they got harder as time went on)...this culminated when Beckett got into the business and PSA went berzerk with qualifiers. Then Beckett came out with BVG and PSA went in reverse again. Associated with all of this churn were a couple of changes in their holder and their numbering methodology (I think I can decode it pretty accurately)...so I use these in evaluating a PSA graded card in addition to the scan.

That being said, I think that SGC also went through some changes over time. I honestly believe that an SGC card with the split-scale (92 / 8.5) is a nicer card than one without it. I believe that they instituted this change about the same time that BGS reared its ugly head.

Does anyone else feel this way?

Scott





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#9053 - 11/07/02 01:18 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
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On the subject of Dslsports....

I used to buy 64 Topps giants from them. Some of their nines looked
like eights. They never answered any of my emails either.

I stopped buying from them before threads came up questioning their
relationship and favorable grading with Psa. I had my own suspicions.
I had eights that were better than their nines. I sold most of the cards
I bought from them to persue other interests. I'm glad I did. I've seen that
they get most of the Psa 10 64 Giants too. I asked the person
who has bought many of them and he says the cards are top notch.
I believe him because he is a stand up guy and knows this set inside
out. Still I'm uncomfortable with Dsl. Maybe it's me. Maybe not. But
I pass on all their auctions.

aconte
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#9054 - 11/07/02 01:20 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: aconte]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
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77's,

Did you get my email? I wasn't sure if you could answer my questions.

aconte
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#9055 - 11/07/02 03:04 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: srs1a]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
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Just FYI ... SGC has offered the 92 half-grade since day 1 ... and that was back in 1998.


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#9056 - 11/07/02 03:57 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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DE,
I am well aware that SGC has offered half grades from day 1...however, the addition of (what they called) a split scale -- putting both 92 and 8.5 on the holder, for example -- was something new...and (I believe) came right after BGS entered the grading market.
SS

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#9057 - 11/07/02 04:11 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: srs1a]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX

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Ooops ... my bad ...

I missed the point of your comment ...


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#9058 - 11/20/02 01:16 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
stanthemanfan
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 10/28/02
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I'd like to hear from anyone who has purchased GAI slabbed cards. I recently bought two cards on Ebay (they haven't arrived yet - so I have nothing to compare to my SGC's) - 1950 Bowman baseball common graded 8 and a 1968 Topps graded 9. In both cases, the cards went for less than either SGC or PSA equivalent grades for these two sets. The Bowman was an uncontested win.

What's the feel/interest at the local or regional shows for GAI product? I know a few of the participants on this board aren't necessarily fans of the company - setting aside the business side of the opinions - how does the product fit relative to SGC and PSA.

The reason I ask - the GAI cards that I see on Ebay and a few of the bigger dealer websites appear to be sharper/nicer cards than PSA's from the same set in the same grade. The GAI's are closer to what I would expect from an SGC slabbed card. Are GAI cards being graded using the same conservative approach as SGC? It certainly seems like they fetch a lower asking price.

Anyone out there with a GAI purchase experience - I'd appreciate any feedback.

By the way - the GAI's are heading to NJ for cross-over. At $3 a card - its a easy decision.

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#9059 - 11/21/02 01:25 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: stanthemanfan]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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STMF,

it you haven't seen it, there is a thread about ...GAI part of the problem, or an option..where a bunch of people weigh in on them..

SS

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#9060 - 11/21/02 05:36 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: srs1a]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
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VaYank had a lot of nerve starting this thread.

aconte
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#9061 - 11/21/02 06:16 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: aconte]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
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I am personally very surprised that such tame stuff ruffles feathers across the street. I think it confirms the unnerving effect GA can, and does, have on otherwise cool PSA heads. It's becomes complex and heated when slabs become simply, in the end, just cash. You personalize things faster.
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9062 - 11/23/02 03:55 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: stanthemanfan]
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 222
Loc: Summer of '77

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I've done my homework--here's the straight dope-- GAI is super-solid. Very strict and consistent. They have arguably the best eyes in the hobby applying their standard. Even Mike & Steve detractors have to agree their eyes have few peers. They will be more innovative than any other company. Interestingly, GAI (stars only) vintage product is moving extremely well on the show floors. They are realizing equal and in many cases higher premiums than PSA. On eBay the results will be rather poor as many people simply do not know who they are and PSA is still the household name and owns the on-line market. I was amazed how busy GAI was in Chicago this weekend. They are doing $3 pre-grading. If you like the grade, they'll slab the card for the difference. Collectors enjoy the lower risk of "bubble" cards and dealers can please all...graded types and raw types with the comfort of the cards being guaranteed unaltered. Geez, I sound like a commercial, but I am really impressed. These guys learned from their mistakes at PSA and have a real monster brewing here. Very comparable to SGC in terms of grading standards--perhaps a little tighter in some areas. Lastly, they have started doing half grades like SGC. I have crossed two GAI 8's to PSA thus far...1 PSA 8 and 1 PSA 9 ('64 topps) the rest I'm keeping Global--the holder is super-sharp as well. I haven't crossed any to SGC yet. In conclusion, you'll be real pleased with those cards, I believe.
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#9063 - 11/24/02 01:40 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
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77's

That is good to hear about GAI. We should throw a party for them.
Let me know how it is.

I'm glad they got in on the half grades too. With Baker's expertise in
the grading of cards (especially vintage), it only confirms the smart
decision by Sgc to use this systems years ago.

aconte
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#9064 - 11/24/02 02:44 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: aconte]
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 222
Loc: Summer of '77

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aconte,
Yeah, they're real solid. I was lining up to bash 'em and just can't thus far....OK, here's one, turnaround was a touch slow, I guess. Customer service will be the rough part for them. They're the greatest guys in person and when you have their attention, but GETTING their attention was difficult at PSA...we'll see. As for the half grades, I really don't see how a company can justify not using that system. Let's face it...BIG difference between a high-end 8 and a MINT 9 particularily in price...I like to have a real good idea about what I'm buying when there is a premium involved.

One note about about SGC that may/may not belong in a different thread...
TERRIBLE JOB AT ADVERTISING THE REGISTRY IN CHICAGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No banners, flyers or word spreading about any offers that a PSA guy couldn't refuse. That scares guys who are on the fence with their sets..."Man, they don't even advertise publicly the single largest move they've made in their history..."
That was a quote (pretty close anyway) from an ardent PSA supporter who had a curiosity for SGC's registry. I was looking for BAM! For 30 days we'll cross your cards over for ONE BUCK! Or, CONTEST--Be the 5000th card to register and your invoice is FREE! Or, come up with a new slogan for SGC and recieve a hundred submissions. Something...ANYTHING would have been nice. I don't want to slam these great, talented guys but GET SOME PERSONALITY and humor about your stuff! Even Bob Dole became likeable when he laughed at his position. SGC should make their position as #2 or whatever work for them...I'm rambling, but they did NOTHING! Disappointed.
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#9065 - 11/24/02 11:57 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
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77 >

I think you (and the other poster) need to relax abit about the Chicago show. Be a bit more sanguine about it. It's clear that SGC folks are card geeks first and marketers last. And it's not that I don't agree with your comments, but SGC has shown a great ability to make adjustments.

Just consider the changes of the last 12 months: Pop reports, message boards, registry's, price guides, easier (and cheaper) pricing structures, plus more. They'll improve on this front. I have no doubt about that.

In the end, how much they improve their marketing can only be judged down the road, not at one show.

_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9066 - 11/25/02 03:55 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: vayank]
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 222
Loc: Summer of '77

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Mathew,
I told myself I would never answer a post with the word sanguine in it but here goes...

Get a clue and don't tell people who are quite rational to calm down. The show was a bust with a capital B! Further, SGC can't seem to get my set right in the registry...constant technical problems are sucking the enjoyment out of this. It's early but they're behind and getting "behinder" (how's that for a big word)...you should live in Chicago--you'd make a great Cub fan--expect little and cheer even less. The registry is aesthetically pleasing and it'll be fine, but SGC NEEDS to make a splash too big to ignore, period. Stop living in your SGC dream world...to some of us this is fun, but we want to be reasonably informed and responsible about where we dump 4-5K on grading little chunks of generation-old cardboard.
Cheers!
77s
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#9067 - 11/26/02 01:13 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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I have to weigh in with 77's on this one.

This is a pretty interesting time -- people are very actively looking for an alternative to PSA and SGC is a very viable option. They need to move and act with more urgency -- they need to make a big splash!

It appears to me that GAI is the main competitor and they are not sitting still -- they just pulled an interesting maneuver and switched to half grades (with no qualifiers -- sound familiar??). I am hearing rumblings of a GAI registry in the not too distant future...and have been hearing some VERY interesting things about it.

So, as they saying goes ...."make hay while the sun is shining"...SGC has a large opportunity in front of them. I want them to suceed...I'd say that all of us on the board want them to suceed...but the next steps are theirs alone (and IMHO critical ones, indeed).

I'd leave it with they've made a good start...and I hope the follow through is just as good.

SS

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#9068 - 12/20/02 06:24 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: srs1a]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


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Weird stuff. No doubt they'll find a replacement, but the guy was chairman for only four months. It could be any reason under the sun, but it does raise questions as to why.    

edited to correct verb tense



Dow Jones Business News
Collectors Universe May be Delisted From Nasdaq
Monday December 16, 11:24 am ET

NEWPORT BEACH, Calif. (Dow Jones)--Collectors Universe Inc. is subject to Nasdaq delisting because it doesn't have at least three independent directors on its board and audit committee.

In a press release Monday, Collectors Universe said it is asking Nasdaq for additional time to complete a search for a new director to fill a vacant seat.

James O'Neal resigned as chairman Dec. 6, less than four months after taking over the position from Roger Johnson. A. Clinton Allen, a director since 2001, was named as O'Neal's replacement.


Edited by vayank (12/20/02 07:21 AM)
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---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9069 - 12/20/02 09:13 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: vayank]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
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I would expect that this may have someting to do with the reverse 4:1 split that I hear is coming (or has come?)...probably someone felt it was time to roll a few heads (????)
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#9070 - 12/20/02 10:16 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: srs1a]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


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The reverse split was effective Monday, Dec 9th.

Since then, the split-adjusted price per share has basically moved sideways. That must make for a lot of unhappy investors given that they've basically lost 3/4 of their investment ...

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#9071 - 12/21/02 12:05 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
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Loc: On The Beach....where else!

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D.E.

How did investors lose 3/4 of their investment? Wouldn't the overall outcome
in a reverse stock split leave one's portfolio with the same amount of
money for that stock?

I don't understand your post.

aconte
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#9072 - 12/21/02 12:45 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: aconte]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
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Investor's may lose or gain on their holdings ultimately, though I think investors' holding were worth the same the day before and the day after the split. The stock has been hovering at $4 -- which equates to a $1 unsplit and ABOVE where it was trading pre-split. We'll see if it stays there.

Again, the resignation is wierd. Four months as chairman and he's out? That's not a long horizon from start to finish. What material facts came to light or personal circumstances that changed within this tiny window?

If it was something personal like he didn't have time for it et al, I think that would have been referenced in the news release to punch down speculation. It is interesting that both Dow Jones and Reuters ran a story off the PR NewsWire release.

Quarter after quarter of losses, followed by two decent quarters, huge write off goodwill due to paying too much for an acquisition, delisting notice, Rick Montgomery leaves, stock split, resignation of new chairman, delisting notice. Given this is all public information already -- you would think people who have their portfolios wrapped in the slab would want a public discusion of what the heck is going on. And you'd think they'd want to do it on their turf. Not talking about it or shooting the messenger is to close one's eyes to events which beg explanation.

_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9073 - 12/21/02 07:14 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: vayank]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
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VaYank,

One comment and one question:

This is a difficult environment for CLCT for sure. The economy and competition
are not helping. Also, I believe their expenses are too high based on review
of quarterly earnings releases.

My question is did you post the release information on the Psa board
where it is so widely accepted?

aconte
_________________________

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#9074 - 12/21/02 07:36 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: aconte]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
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Aconte > Pretty funny. I passed on posting it on the other Board this time. I was flabbergasted by the reaction last time. CU writes it, releases it to the media and then it gets posted verbatim on their own Board -- when that causes an outcry, the word "spooked" doesn't even come close to being the right word.
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9075 - 12/21/02 08:57 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: aconte]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
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Hey aconte --

On Friday 12/6, the CLCT closing price was 3.48. On Monday 12/9 (the day of the reverse split), the closing price was 3.98 ... about a 14% increase. However, if you owned 1000 shares on Friday, your holdings were reduced to 250 as a result of the reverse split. The 14% price increase was overwhelmed by the 75% holdings decrease. Even though the share price went up, your net investment went down the toilet.

By market close on 12/20, the price had leveled off and traded within a few cents of 4.10 for four straight days. It was trending (if you can call four days' results "trending") sideways.

Also note that the symbol was changed to CLCTD on 12/9.

Finally, vayank's report of CLCT being delisted for not having the requisite number of independent directors is totally accurate. The last report I read suggested that CLCT was petitioning the NASDAQ for more time so that a suitable director could be located.


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#9076 - 12/21/02 09:43 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: aconte]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
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Hi again ...

As I reread my CLCT previous posts, I realize that the confusion may have resulted from my use of the term, "split adjusted" ...

My bad ...


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#9077 - 12/25/02 04:39 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 222
Loc: Summer of '77

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Guys,
Every third-party authentication company should be spooked by GAI. They're coming hard and fast. PSA has hit rock-bottom in terms of consistency. Two influential & ardent PSA collectors on popular sets are beginning to submit to Global. More to come. Don't talk to me about what's listed on eBay--the fact is GAI is getting BUSIER while PSA is getting SLOWER.

SGC...opportunity isn't knocking...it's pounding on the door.
_________________________
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#9078 - 12/26/02 01:42 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
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Hey 77s --

Haven't heard from you in awhile, but it's good to know you're still out there stirring up the pot.

In reply to:

the fact is GAI is getting BUSIER while PSA is getting SLOWER.




Do you have a feel for SGC's increase/decrease in business since the roll out of the set registry? Just curious ...


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#9079 - 12/26/02 11:44 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
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Hi 77s -- nice to see you back!

As you are aware, there ijas been alot of interesting discussion on GAI on the "other board" over the past week.

The way I read the tea leaves is that some people are very interested in GAI, while others seem to avoid them like the plague, and for the same reasons -- their experiences with PSA when the GAI folks were there.

Who knows which way this thing will go. I thought the most interesting piece of the discussion was a general acknowledgement that there are 3 grading companies out there today that "know how to grade" -- PSA, SGC, and GAI. I thought that this was great news for SGC -- they are definately respected by collectors of PSA slabs.

Scott

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#9080 - 12/26/02 04:55 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 222
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DE,

Regarding SGC's day-to-day: "Slow and Steady wins the race..." I have no information here, just a vibe. The GAI/PSA thing is real. PSA guys with a false sense of security (you know the guys who assume because there are more PSA graded cards on eBay everything's peachy) are in for a rude awakening late next fall...

Scott,
Yeah, I'm one of the guys who posted that. Like SGC, GAI is the real deal. I would love to see SGC go nuts and make a huge splash. Change their flips, go to $250 flat rate 100-card submissions, etc. Go loud and public with it. PSA's inability to apply their standards consistently has created an immediate business op. There's still some die-hards there, but most, like me, are finishing what we started and exploring options. If GAI would cross my set for nothing, they'd have it. I'm not alone. SGC is solid and I'll be doing a set with them in 2003. My 78's need a home...
_________________________
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#9081 - 12/27/02 03:49 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
Anonymous Unregistered



To some collectors it matters that there are more cards of a certain company on ebay. If you collect a 71 Topps Baseball set and all you can buy on ebay are PSA cards it certainly means you are more likely to try and pursue a PSA set. Does PSA do the best job grading? Everybody has different ideas and standards and apparently many have stated that GAI and SGC are more consistent. The problem with that is that PSA cards still sell for more money and hence, dealers are more likely to submit cards to PSA. For SGC to make a dent or GAI they need to get some of the big collectors/dealers involved. If you look at the top 100 dealers/collectors in the hobby, too many of them are attached to PSA. The fact that BMW uses SGC certainly helps them nationally but until other big time dealers or collectors switch to SGC gaining ground will always be a big uphill climb.
Many of PSA's top dealers also use GAI but very few have completely switched over. How many dealers are willing to convert their inventory and lose money.
In talking to Mastro at a show, they informed me that they believed that GAI, PSA and SGC all did a good job for them but with the PSA set registry and other factors PSA cards still sold the best. Once that perception changes the other companies can win the battle but until than gaining ground as I stated earlier is a big uphill climb.
Albie

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#9082 - 12/27/02 03:51 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked
Rickdogg
Vigilante Dachshund


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Feel free to register so we can put a name to your post
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#9083 - 12/27/02 03:56 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
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Well said Albie. Closing the "business equation" is required for SGC (or GAI for that matter) to really hit it big. The current environment offers an excellent opportunity, my fingers are crossed.


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#9084 - 12/27/02 03:57 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


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It's 11:30 AM EST on Friday, Dec 27th, and CLCT is down 15.01% on no new published company news.

Are our friends across the street experiencing a slow, ugly death spiral ... or are we witnessing a crash-n-burn in progress?

I'd be interested in opinions of a hypothetical (looming???) scenario:

What is the viability of PSA as a standalone company should its parent fold? Forget its position in the marketplace ... it needs cash to operate. How does it get funding to remain afloat? Speculation is already in the public domain that PSA's grading standards are suspect and inconsistent? Would standards be deliberately compromised to encourage continued submissions and ongoing cash flow?


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#9085 - 12/27/02 05:05 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
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DE, you asked some tough questions. It seems hard for me to understand how a 3rd party grading company could ever think it was a good idea to change its standards to accomodate a less than positive business environment. If it were me, I'd try to generate more cash with aggressive pricing.

Joe Orlando (pres of PSA) posted some stuff of the other board saying that they were grading about 100k cards per month -- if one assumes an average price in the $6/card range, they are grossing about 600k/month...it is hard for me to believe that their expenses could be close to this, so I would expect PSA has a positive cash flow. If this isn't the case, I would expect it could be the case in relatively short order.

BTW, he also said that they employed "at least 12 graders"...if one assumes that means 12 graders...and assuming 175 hrs worked per month...and 100k cards graded per month -- means 1.25 minutes per card per grader! If one assumes that they have more than one set of eyes review a card, this increases the pace even further. This rate is absolutely stunning to me and easy to understand their current set of issues.


Scott

P.S. at noon they are down >16%, but very low volume (8k shares -vs- an average full-day volume of 33k). ?????



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#9086 - 12/27/02 05:11 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: srs1a]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
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I believe there is something going on with the stock -- perhaps an insider is selling stock. There are a handful of institutional holders too. Yesterday, the price dropped about 25% and than spiked up to almost break even -- close at least. Volume 30K some odd. That's converted 1 to 4 stock, which equates to about 120K volume pre-reverse split. Who knows?
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9087 - 12/27/02 05:51 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
77collector
Learning the Ropes


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Out of respect for board members and to do the right thing in regards to 77s specifically, I am editing this out.

77s - good luck. Regardless of our differences, I will always honestly think you have some truly nice cards in that set of yours no matter what any particular grading company has determined.

May the new year be a happier one for all.


Edited by 77collector (12/29/02 01:05 PM)

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#9088 - 12/27/02 06:50 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: vayank]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


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I think because the stock is so narrowly priced swings such as this might
be taken for a grain of salt. I could be wrong but I've see this many times
before. Especially in some biotech and mfg companies.

My biggest concern with Psa is that they have continued to lose money
with all the submissions they receive. I think their expenses are too
high. They should be making a higher profit margin before taxes (EBIT).
I'm not an industry expert but I conclude that earnings should be better
than they have been.

The other concern with Psa is with the increased amount of inconsistencies,
poor accuracy, and mislabeling of cards. I've seen this with some red
man cards. I've attached an example below:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16271&item=1985161858

I'm concerned because while I'm a Sgc red man collector I am putting
my 53 set in Psa. It is definitely easier to buy Sgc red man cards sight
unseen than Psa. Psa red man's are a riskier deal.

P.S. I have my 55 set on the Registry now too. I hope to cross about
a dozen Psa holdered cards to Sgc at the next Ft. Washington show.
To quote another "Red man's rock!"

aconte
_________________________

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#9089 - 12/27/02 09:59 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: 77collector]
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 222
Loc: Summer of '77

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Kurt,

Your post should win some kind of award for sheer energy and length. I was the subject matter and didn't even bother to read it all. A couple of rebuttals to your aimless rants...

Just because you lack the factual information needed to form an understanding of my behavior does not make me schizophrenic. Further, how much I bid on a card, and WHY I choose to bid it should be of no concern to you whatsoever. What SHOULD be of interest to you is that you take your medication in a timely manner and remember that people love you.

77
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#9090 - 12/27/02 10:11 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
77collector
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 23
Loc: The SGC boards

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77s,

Yet again look in the mirror:

"Further, how much I bid on a card, and WHY I choose to bid it should be of no concern to you whatsoever."

Again, you emailed me big guy.

My meds are just fine I think.

We can drop this now I hope, correct?

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#9091 - 12/27/02 11:15 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: 77collector]
stanthemanfan
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 366

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I hope SGC sets up another category - "Not vintage and not modern" and throws the 1977 Topps set into it so 77's and 77collector can pound it out in private. I honestly do not believe a mid-70's set is considered vintage. The process of collecting cards from the 1950's is the absolute polar opposite of buying cards printed in the '70's.

I know everyone is going to jump on me for this one - but I would much rather have separate running dialogue with people collecting 1940/50/60's cards than having to read about some cats bickering about Ebay winning bid strategies in the hopes of finding something relevant to vintage card collecting. If someone wants to bid a grand on a Chris Chambliss SGC 96 '77 Topps - God bless them. Put it on the Registry and let everyone know how much you paid and how much happiness the win brought to you.

About PSA vs. SGC

I submitted 1 message on the PSA board about 2.5 years ago and got beat about the head and shoulders. Card collecting is just that - buying cards not holders. This is what I said then and I'll repeat it one more time.
I'm more than happy to let people get biased on the brand of plastic and steal the cards from under their noses. Great cards exist in PSA, SGC, GAI, PRO, SCD, etc. - it takes a collector to filter thru the garbage and find the gems.

Who cares about the stock price - if you're watching Superior's stock price and allowing that to sway your purchase - then call yourself a plastic card storage holder collector. PSA can fall off into the Pacific for all I care - it has absolutely no affect on the card incapsulated in its holder. If PSA falls apart and you have cards in their holders - you crossover to whoever is doing 3rd party grading at the time. That's all there is too it.


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#9092 - 12/27/02 11:34 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: stanthemanfan]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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I think STMF makes some very good points -- this is a message board about card collecting, not stock prices -- and I am guilty. No more.

And I agree on his comments about there being gems out there for the careful collector to find -- and they can exist in many different holders, However, I draw the line at PRO!

Scott


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#9093 - 12/27/02 11:47 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: stanthemanfan]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
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Stan,

You made some good points. A comment on the Psa vs Sgc:

For me, I've always thought of collecting cards as fun. I've always liked
to own nice cards. I was drawn to the grading of cards for many reasons.
One is that high end cards are found slabbed. The other reason I like
the registry is because I've always enjoyed putting sets together. The
registry helps this happen for me. I love looking at all the sets. And if
I like it... it's fun... and for me that's all I need.

As far as why I like one grading company over another I have my
reasons. I use Sgc and Psa. That's it. And I'm trying to do sets in
certain holders.

But your comments are valid. And so are mine. I collect for fun. #1.

aconte
_________________________

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#9094 - 12/27/02 11:52 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: aconte]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
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Stan,

After re-reading your post I do disagree with one comment.

"Great cards exist in Pro slabs."

Not likely.

aconte
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#9095 - 12/27/02 12:04 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: srs1a]
stanthemanfan
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 366

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Scott,

I know you're an experienced collector and I always appreciate your opinions - I'm glad to hear someone can find a comfortable position with some of my opinions. I think there is a downside to collecting graded cards - the inherent "tastes great" - "less filling" argument.

It would be nice for someone to make a decree that great cards exist in all different holders and that the true price of cards is based on what people are willing to pay for them. This applies to bottles of beer, roofing shingles, graded cards, etc.

I threw PRO into my list just because I bought a '49 Bowman Rizzuto that is gorgeous. I paid a touch over $100 for it - the last 2 minutes of the Ebay auction had people upping the ante over other bids by a $1. The only reason this happened was the fact that the card was in a PRO holder. The next week - a dingy looking PSA Rizzuto went for $600+.

Talking about tastes great - I've got a 1964 Bobby Shantz SGC88 that I'm willing to trade for a 6-pack of Brooklyn Brewery's finest. Let me know

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#9096 - 12/27/02 12:32 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: aconte]
stanthemanfan
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 366

Offline
Aconte,

I know how you feel about PRO - 1 of 2 things is going to happen with my recent Ebay purchase - I'm either going to be sitting on a beautiful card I got for a song and a dance in an SGC crossed-over holder or a real nice example of what the latest HP/Canon printer capabilities are - a counterfeit in other words. I'll know in a month as this card and a few other non-SGC's are going out for crossover.

I never search out PRO's as my first, second or third choice. This was just too nice to pass up on.

I will let everyone know the crossover result.

thanks

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#9097 - 12/27/02 02:35 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: stanthemanfan]
SGCRULES
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 21
Loc: Little Rock, Arkansas

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My opinion on this PSA vs SGC vs BGS is simple.

PSA: I submit a LOT of cards to PSA for the simple reason RESALE VALUE. Say what you want but until something changes PSA cards still command a premium.

BGS: A total conflict of interest. Now they have openly admitted they grade older cards to a less standard (BVG). They grade to a ridiculous standards and I really think they kill cards on the surface grade unless you are a big time spender with them. I don't remember the last time I actually had someone answer their customer service number.

SGC: I use SGC alot for my personal collection ( cards I plan to keep for years) simply because I love the holders and I am doing a 1976 Baseball set in SGC. If the resale prices ever get up to the level of PSA they will have more my business.

As far as Joe Orlando at PSA goes, he is wonderful and has improved customer service and turnarounds. I talked with him on the phone today (he returned my call within 30 minutes) about some cards and future specials ETC.... always a positive in comparison to Rocchi who I think caters to the big spenders.

I hear all these claims of overgraded PSA cards and I really wonder????? I submit 300-500 cards EVERY month to PSA and I can honestly say I have never gotten a card back that I feel was overgraded, but I do see some I think are undergraded.

Bottom line is use the company you like and feel comfortable with.

Now I am ready to be bashed so please post comments.

Billy

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#9098 - 12/27/02 02:37 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: stanthemanfan]
SGCRULES
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 21
Loc: Little Rock, Arkansas

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I threw PRO into my list just because I bought a '49 Bowman Rizzuto that is gorgeous. I paid a touch over $100 for it - the last 2 minutes of the Ebay auction had people upping the ante over other bids by a $1.

Stan, I would love to see a scan of this card. I bet there is a good chance the card has been trimmed.

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#9099 - 12/27/02 03:33 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: SGCRULES]
stanthemanfan
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 366

Offline
SGCRULES

It's all packaged up ready to go to SGC in tomorrow's mail - so I won't be able to send a picture. There's a possibility I'm going to get burned - this is my first PRO purchase. Who knows - if so, I learned a $100 lesson. I'll let everyone know in a month.

Thanks

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#9100 - 12/27/02 03:54 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: stanthemanfan]
SGCRULES
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 21
Loc: Little Rock, Arkansas

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Stan,

I hope I did not offend you that was not my intention. I do know of several people that bought nice looking cards in PRO holders, busted them out, sent them to PSA and they were trimmed. I hope this is not the case and please let me know the outcome

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#9101 - 12/27/02 11:24 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: SGCRULES]
stanthemanfan
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 366

Offline
SGCRULES

Absolutely not - no offense taken. It may be too good to be true - but I'm not losing sleep over it. I'd hate to have spent $100 on a doctored card - but I also like the idea of having a sweet 53 year old HOFer in SGC plastic. The risk/reward principle rightly applies to this case.

Don't worry about offending. I'll post the results - its going in with a beautiful PSA '65 Koufax and a few other GAI commons. I'll scan both cards and post on return.

Enjoy New Years.

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#9102 - 12/27/02 11:36 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: stanthemanfan]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

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Maybe we should call you "Standtheriverboatgambler."
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9103 - 12/28/02 01:57 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: stanthemanfan]
Anonymous Unregistered



Stantheman,
Great post in response to what has become a more public squabble than I would have liked. I do hope you recognize that I was ambushed in half a dozen paragraphs or so by an individual with no excuse other than my failure to respond to a 5000 word private essay he wrote me at Christmas time about the ills of the current hobby state. I will attempt to keep it from these topic-boards going forward and apologize to all for responding publicly.
As a collector that has done 50-60's sets and singles (and even a Diamond Stars set) you are correct. The difference in assembling them is very different. Those sets have funded my purchases the last couple of years as I move from "other peoples childhoods" into my own. Also, I do own great cards in many holders as well...great point there. To date, I haven't found one in a PRO holder, but I'm sure they must exist somewhere.
I do disagree with you regarding the bickering, however. It comes in all shapes and sizes and is certainly not confined to 70's collectors. Pretty broad brush stroke there...also...who's got the Chambliss????

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#9104 - 12/28/02 03:04 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 222
Loc: Summer of '77

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'twas me above. Sorry.
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#9105 - 12/28/02 07:04 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked
stanthemanfan
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 366

Offline
I picked out the '77 set only because you and another guy were going at it about winning bids, medication, etc. I honestly think vintage cards are 1969 and earlier. I've included this in a few of my emails. I would have responded the same way to any mid-late '70's set. I think collecting cards from any year is great - I just wanted to make the point that the vintage message board really spans a large group of collecting interests.

About the PRO card - I understand the general opinion of the board on PRO. I hope the card has not been altered - it may or may not.

I had to roll the dice (the riverboat gambler in me) and give it a try. SGC price guide values the card in the $1100 - 1200 range for an SGC92. A delta of $1000 was the motivator along with adding another vintage Bowman to my collection.

If it comes back trimmed - I brace myself for a chorus of "I told you so's".

I have the Chambliss SGC96 and I only paid $975.00 for it!

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#9106 - 12/29/02 09:56 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: stanthemanfan]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX

Offline
Hey STMF --

Since I've discussed CLCT's stock price several times on this board, it's not surprising that I disagree with your opinion regarding the importance of such discussion in a card collection/hobby forum. You're off base on other issues as well (IMHO). But what REALLY bends my nose out of joint is any attempt to regulate or control the content of any discussion (… unless it’s ARCH who has that authority and responsibility).

So sit back, relax, grab something tall and frosty to drink, keep an open mind (which usually means putting yourself in someone else's shoes) ... and read on. I'll be gentle.

In reply to:

Who cares about the stock price - if you're watching Superior's stock price and allowing that to sway your purchase - then call yourself a plastic card storage holder collector. … If PSA falls apart and you have cards in their holders - you crossover to whoever is doing 3rd party grading at the time.




1. The subject of this thread relates to competitive performance among grading companies. It has evolved into the speculative idea that industry leader PSA (or its parent, Collectors Universe) might be experiencing a slow, ugly death spiral and that there may be new opportunities to be exploited by the competition. Stock prices, rising/falling revenues, market share, cash flow, etc. are … necessarily … components of such a discussion. The conjecture, predictions and wishful thinking ... that are thrown in ... make the discussion fun.

2. I suspect the more $$$ a collector has invested in his collection, the more he would think your statement is naïve and idiotic. I checked out a few sets registered across the street. Consider these:

  • The "Howard Tiss/Superior" 1962 Topps (baseball) collection. By my count, it contains 589 cards for a 96.99% completion score. 100% of the cards are 8's.
  • The "T206 King" 1909-11 T206 collection. It is 98% complete with an average card grade of 7.62. By my count, it contained 61 9's.
  • The "Charles Merkel" 1933 Goudey collection. It is 99.58% complete and is missing only the Napoleon Lajoie card. All four Babe Ruth cards are 8's and 36 others are 9's. One of the Gehrig cards is an 8, the other is a 10.

It doesn’t take a huge leap of imagination to recognize that these owners have 6- and 7-figure dollar amounts tied up in their collections. I GUARANTEE they watch the CLCT stock price every day. And the notion that, given a PSA collapse, they can simply cross cards over to the next grading service without risk or loss is absurd.

In reply to:

Card collecting is just that - buying cards not holders.




3. The moment you pay $1 extra for a 3rd party graded card vs. an equivalent card in a single screw loc-tite holder, you've bought into the "value added" argument. That is, you are paying extra for a service provided ... not a plastic holder ... regardless of which company graded the card.

In reply to:

Great cards exist in PSA, SGC, GAI, PRO, SCD, etc. - it takes a collector to filter thru the garbage and find the gems.




4. You're presuming that you have the luxury of making your own subjective evaluation of a card prior to making a purchase. Where you live, maybe that's the case. But for the last several years, 100% of my purchases have been made long distance. These include straight sales conducted via email and internet transactions. Sometimes card scans are available, but often (when dealing with someone I trust) they are not. And remember, pictures can be doctored more easily than cards. I am totally reliant on the ability of the grading service to "consistently get it right". That is, I am counting on SGC to have "filtered thru the garbage" and to have "found the gems."

5. There are significant differences between equivalent grades awarded by the various services. Period. PSA awards "soft 9's." SGC calls these 92's. I'm absolutely certain that SGC attempts to strictly apply its standards on each card it grades. I'm not at all certain that this is the case with any other grading company. End of story.





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#9107 - 12/29/02 01:24 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
stanthemanfan
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 366

Offline
Deadly,

I recommended that another discussion group be added to cover the mid-70's to maybe mid-80's (at the time of my post - I didn't specify years). The collecting of these years is completely different when compared to earlier/older cards. You collect 1962 and '69 mint cards - based on your info page. How often does a mint 62 in an SGC holder pop-up compared to the number of '77 SGC 96's on Ebay? Maybe for every 1 '62, maybe 75-100 SGC96's are auctioned off in the same amount of time. Just my guess. Seeing that collecting these 2 particular sets are significantly different - let there be different discussion threads. That's what I said - there was no attempt to control/limit the message board.

The connection between stock price for CLCT and the price of their slabbed cards just doesn't make any sense to me. For any collectible - the true value of the object is what is paid at the time of the transaction. Plain and simple. We all can look at price guides, stock prices, etc to get an idea of what the card or valuable is worth - but at the end of the day, what 2 people agree to on a transaction amount is what the card is worth. I'll give an example - about 9 months ago, BMW put up a 1951 Bowman Lary Doby SGC 96 on Ebay. I actually took a real serious look at that card when it was on his website (prior to his auction - a 51 Slaughter also was part of this auction) priced about $950. The card sold for $2200+ on Ebay. The SGC price guide listed the card at $550 - 650 in Mint condition. A person can look at the auction price in 2 ways - the winner paid nearly 4x book or the price guide was wrong by a multiple of 4. Either way - the value of the card is now $2200+ . The only way I agree with your statement is if PSA goes belly-up and the graded-card collecting population no longer recognizes a PSA holder having a position in the market. If that is the case - then the owners of the card should be able to transfer their collection into whatever company takes the place of PSA. What I said and personally believe in is that the actual cardboard is the value - not the holder. A beat up card in a PSA holder is still a beat-up card. Whether the 3 gentlemen you mentioned in your post watch the stock price to determine if their collections have lost or gained value on a day-to-day basis - I can't answer that question. I personally know that I do not pay more or less for a card depending on how CLCT or any other listed 3rd party grading company stock is doing on any specific day or quarter.

Filtering thru garbage to find the gems - it is my personal practice to always request a scan of a graded card before I buy. I collect 1968 Topps - the centering of a SGC92 can vary significantly - even though SGC is the toughest of the grading companies. I will not buy every 92 that is offered up for sale - even though SGC or PSA or whoever says its a nice card via their respective grade. I am the final filter of all graded cards when it comes to my own purchases. I always want to look at the card (even though the grade is known) before I buy . If someone purchases cards sight-unseen, that's fine - knock yourself out. I just don't.

What my post said was that I look at the card first and holder second. For example, the universal opinion that I understand is that no ones believes good cards are in PRO holders. For some, that opinion automatically eliminates whatever card population exists for PRO - that's fine. I don't have that opinion and I am willing to look at and buy cards outside of PSA, SGC, GAI, BVG. For every person that eliminates a specific grading company - that represents 1 less person who I may have to compete with in auction setting. That is what my message talked about.



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#9108 - 12/29/02 01:46 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

Offline
DE,

My guess is that Charles Merkel is not worrying in so muxh that he's losing
sleep over the price of CLCT stock. One, I'm sure he is financially secure.
Two, Gai would cross all his cards in a heartbeat.

Guys like me could cross over my Psa cards to Sgc or vice-versa. But it
would cost a few bucks!

aconte
_________________________

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#9109 - 12/30/02 01:19 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: srs1a]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX

Offline
Hey Scott --

In reply to:

Joe Orlando (pres of PSA) posted some stuff of the other board saying that they were grading about 100k cards per month ... he also said that they employed "at least 12 graders"... if one assumes that means 12 graders...and assuming 175 hrs worked per month...and 100k cards graded per month -- means 1.25 minutes per card per grader!




Those numbers don't pass the smell test, do they ... !!??!! SGC claims to be grading 30K cards per month. Any idea how many graders SGC has on staff?


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#9110 - 12/30/02 02:11 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

Offline
Hi DE,

here's the post -- directly from the other board...

3) Currently, we have over a dozen graders in-house - that's the only way we could grade 100,000 cards per month.

Here's the link to the thread -- it's pretty near the bottom.
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=151236

The math is straight foward -- an average (working) month is 175 hours at 40hrs/week...which gets you to 48 cards per grader per hour with 12 graders.

Does it pass the smell test? It seems to be a brutal pace and says to me that I don't want to be a grader when I grow up!

Scott



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#9111 - 12/30/02 07:12 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: srs1a]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX

Offline
Hey Scott --

I enjoyed reading that thread ... sounds like there's no such thing as universal love in PSA world!!

gaspipe26 sounds seriously ticked. I think I've bid against him in the past, and I may have even bought from him (I think ... ). Do you get a sense that his opinions are characteristic of a growing segment of PSA folk ... ???

Also, do you have to join the PSA club to be able to post on their message boards?




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#9112 - 12/30/02 10:20 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

Offline
DE > You do not have to be a member to post on the other Board. I've been posting for 18 months now.
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9113 - 12/30/02 11:12 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

Offline
DE,

I've been on that board for some time also. Some great posters with a wealth
of card knowledge too. I have learned a lot from guys like gaspipe, crazysc,
dgf, basilone, z, gator, ms, and others just to name a few. A wealth of
information. From some just a little too much unconditional love. So be
careful if you say anything bad about Psa. It could get rough....

That and if you try to post anything regarding earnings info; you might
get slapped around... Right VaYank!!

By the way this has nothing to do with this thread but:::

GO EAGLES!!!!

aconte
_________________________

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#9114 - 12/30/02 01:41 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
Anonymous Unregistered



Guys, Every third-party authentication company should be spooked by GAI. They're coming hard and fast. PSA has hit rock-bottom in terms of consistency. Two influential & ardent PSA collectors on popular sets are beginning to submit to Global. More to come. Don't talk to me about what's listed on eBay--the fact is GAI is getting BUSIER while PSA is getting SLOWER.

SGC...opportunity isn't knocking...it's pounding on the door.


Something very interesting seems to be happening. Any details you know of?

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#9115 - 12/30/02 04:24 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 222
Loc: Summer of '77

Offline
Sometimes buzzes like these pass in and out like a scent...

In this case I think it comes to this: Many people are recognizing that each company has credibility. Each has strengths and weaknesses. These can be recognized from varying perspectives based on unique experiences. Mine, which COULD be another thread...
I do my 77's primarily with PSA (Some SGC as well) My 75's and 80's and 83's are all SGC.
The balance of everything (Pre-war to present) I intend to keep is Baker certified. I just feel very confident with him and he's real consistent. I just don't get too many cards back from Global and go "Huh?" This happens virtually every submission to PSA these days. Over and under. It doesn't make PSA evil or stupid, I just can't get a handle on their standard anymore. SGC, like Global, is very conscious of the image on the card and aesthetic appeal. I LOVE that criteria. They call 'em freakin' PICTURE CARDS--how can a MINT 9 have a lousy picture??? (I digress). They have a great looking holder and arguably the co-best grader in the hobby (Derek), as well as the best group of guys you'd ever want to meet. They seem uncompromising of their standard for anyone. Sean is all business but takes time out to chat when you want him and can be quite candid. Global is dynamic and aggressive and will continue to promote and innovate. They are also, for obvious reasons, very motivated to succeed. The holder is beautiful as well. PSA is the most interactive right now. They have good people there and do a fine job most of the time on the grading. Their registry has been wildly successful and their message boards see heavy traffic daily.
I struggled for some time to find a grading company to cross to or use, etc. I'll use 'em all. The 80's look killer in the SGC slab. The 77 PSA set (for now) would have the highest re-sale value and would be most liquid (important as it is for my Son, Montgomery). If not for that fact, it would be with SGC or Global, too. Baseball cards are like art to me and those holders pop.

In closing, I'm not sure what's cooking...something is. I know many PSA guys are exploring options slowly but surely and this will be a great thing for the hobby. The grading companies should stand on their merits of what they DO, not strictly liquidity. I'm guilty, but human. It would be great if many collectors dispersed their cards based on what they liked and could count on similar liquidity and resale...for that to happen a whole slew of unenlightened collectors would have to understand that ALL three are solid and do good work. At times, some do it better than others.

I'll keep you posted if I hear anything that I can actually share...
_________________________
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#9116 - 12/30/02 05:07 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
Anonymous Unregistered



77s - Very well said. I agree with that pretty much word for word.


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#9117 - 12/31/02 12:45 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

Offline
Hello DE,

As the rest of the crew stated -- no need to be a member, but you have to register and it takes a while...no mystery posts over there. I think that would be a good idea here, as well.

As with any board of that type, there are plenty of "party loyalists" who offer unconditional support, but also some very objective people asking tough questions. In general, I find much of the discussion very interesting.

You will recognize a few folks by their names, and a few more by their opinions!

Scott


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#9118 - 12/31/02 01:43 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 222
Loc: Summer of '77

Offline
Anonymous,
It's great that we agree, but please register so it doesn't look like I'm having a conversation with myself. Recently, I've been accused of being schizophrenic and this just doesn't look too good right now
_________________________
***********************************************************

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#9119 - 12/31/02 02:35 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
77collector
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 23
Loc: The SGC boards

Offline
77s - As you know I have been registered.

I retracted my previous "award winning" post. It came out of frustration for reasons you already know. The right thing to do was edit it and work on getting back to simply having fun with sportscards.

I asked for details and not only did I get an honest and candid answer, you answered my "other rants" as well. Like I said, "I agree...pretty much word for word." After a "timeout" and some thought, schizophrenic is a bad description for both of us. Frustrated is more fitting.

I wish I had gotten that impression in the first place. I made some incorrect assumptions of your "style". The internet, of course, still has that problem where a reader cannot get a feel for the "tone" that verbal communications provide.

I am not accusing you of anything going forward...except being one of the most passionate collectors I've ever run into, who does have some of the nicest late 70s/early 80s Topps cards ever made, regardless of which slab they reside in. Like it or not, you have made valuable contributions to my hobby knowledge and for that I thank you.

I make a public apology to all on the boards, of course especially 77s, for venting frustration here.

Should be interesting to see what changes the hobby brings "us" in 2003.

Good Luck on your set!

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#9120 - 12/31/02 04:26 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: 77collector]
81GURU
Just got here


Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 4

Offline
Hmm,

Well this is my first post and I go under gator5 on the psa board which I do find
to be brutal if your not a psa fan...

But this is my take on the whole deal for know a little on the grading
take. GAI is coming and coming with a quickness for their cards aren't liquid
at the moment but I have invested some pocket change in the vintage and
what can I say pretty solid not to mention I think the holders are sweet with
some pretty nifty feature with the #"s on the top of the holders...Do I think
they'll stick who knows but their brewing up a storm....And now is the time
for psa's downfall for alot of big hitters are drawing restless with inconsistency...

For a person as myself I'm finding a hard time getting my cards the correct
grades for I focus all in 81' topps and dabble in some other areas but when
someone is submitting 40 of my 8's and turning 35 9's and a ten I find this
absurd...For psa is to the point in the later 70's and 80's of taking dead issues
and plopping 10's out for the average submitter for later submissions...Then
taking guys like me with 200k++++++++still going...Won't let me blow up the
pop....

I can go on and on with stories so if you folks like to here anti psa I can let
it fly...But lets not be anti gai for untill you start buying the card you don't know
and when you do start buying to find out whoops thats look to be a market!!!!!!!!!!!!

Matt aka 81 guru

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#9121 - 12/31/02 04:37 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: 81GURU]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

Offline
Welcome 81GURU.

aconte
_________________________

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#9122 - 12/31/02 07:29 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: aconte]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

Offline
81Guru, welcome. I am not at all anti-GAI, though I am a SGC guy first, last and always. Fact is, GAI's founders have been trailblazers in the industry and continue to manifest a forward-thinking vision.
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9123 - 12/31/02 08:11 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: vayank]
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 222
Loc: Summer of '77

Offline
Yank,
I had no idea Bill Walton and Clyde Drexler worked for GAI!
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!! Our sets just got another year older!

WELCOME TO THE GURU!!!
_________________________
***********************************************************

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#9124 - 12/31/02 03:55 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

Offline
Happy New Year's Folks!


Edited by vayank (12/31/02 03:56 PM)
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9125 - 12/31/02 03:55 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: downgoesfrazier]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

Offline
... and yes, they are SPOOKED... ...

Edited by vayank (12/31/02 03:59 PM)
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9126 - 01/01/03 02:46 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: vayank]
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 222
Loc: Summer of '77

Offline
Yank...my best one-liner of 2002 and I get nothing?!?!
Anyway, I just wanted to be the first poster of 2003...
_________________________
***********************************************************

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#9127 - 01/02/03 12:48 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: 81GURU]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

Offline
Hello 81GURU (Matt) and welcome.

I found out how unloving the other board can be when I weighed in on the resubmission from Heaven where all the vast majority of your 8's got transformed into 9's and a 10 (my first post and I started with a bang!). It boggles my mind that anyone can think that this is acceptable. Oh well, shows how much I know!

Again, welcome.

Scott

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#9128 - 01/02/03 10:47 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: srs1a]
81GURU
Just got here


Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 4

Offline
Srs and All

Pay no attention for alot of them are strictly buyers and band wagon folk...Yet don't get me wrong alot of knowledge is their to gain...Alot of great collectors for I have dealt with alot of them with my vintage that I have latched on to..

As for the submission from heaven I have no answers for this is the power of psa I'm sick of complaining and bitching it makes me sound like a poor sport but I can tell you this is not the case...Just somebody that know what he's talking about for I can honestly say I've looked at more pack fresh 81's in one year than anyones lifetime and I'd put my collection on it...

So here I sit after just looking at my latest submission, stunned 5 cards all 8's and a 5...The 5 is granted for it's a koufax rookie but should have been a 6...As for the 8's I'll take 1 but the other 3 are nuts...3 61's all in gai 9 holders cracked and sent to psa whats to grade...4 razors centered 5050 and the best image around...No clue...I know what I'm talking about you either have it or you don't I'm not a wisher and don't crunch #'s on what ifs...You have to look at it as in my shoes a up and cummer that has his hands on some quality stuff...But everytime I complain I feel as if I'm wrong!!!!!!!! Which is usually not the case...SO here I sit baffled on what to do for I need the liquid which means psa...I wish I wasn't in this situation...Thanks to all for hearing me vent...

Matt

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#9129 - 01/02/03 01:56 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: 81GURU]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX

Offline
Hi Matt --

In reply to:

SO here I sit baffled on what to do for I need the liquid which means psa...I wish I wasn't in this situation...




If you have any very high quality 1962 Topps baseball, here's an alternative. Send them to SGC. If they come back as 96's or better ... and they are cards I need for my set ... I'll make your SGC experiment worth your while ...


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#9130 - 01/02/03 02:31 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
81GURU
Just got here


Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 4

Offline


Deadly,

Funny guy, haha I wish I had some razor 62's for I like them actually if you can find them in that form...Otherwise they can be pretty ugly...I'm running some auctiion at the moment under excuzme on ebay mostly nrmt stuff but a few nmmt reside...

Do you collect 64's or 65's plenty of them laying around..

Matt

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#9131 - 01/02/03 04:07 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: 81GURU]
downgoesfrazier
I am gonna miss that car.


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 222
Loc: Summer of '77

Offline
Matt,
Send me the 61's. I want to see this one. For folks who don't know the GURU he has a discerning eye. The guy can spot a mint card from a dozen paces. He's just a guy who wants consistency AND liquidity...

It's ironic. I sent my 61 Banks in hoping they'd forgive the tilt and apreciate the image quality and give up an 8. I get back a 9!!! If I bought this card as a 9, I'd be pissed. A gorgeous image, for sure...but not a 9...two corners show touches and the tilt at worst point is 38. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Matt has dead centered pack-fresh blazers for, apparently, under 20 bucks Ahhhh PSA...

Dude, give me a shout tomorrow...
_________________________
***********************************************************

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#9132 - 01/02/03 11:44 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: 81GURU]
deadlyembrace
The Venus Card Trap


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 596
Loc: Austin, TX

Offline
Hey Matt --

In reply to:

Do you collect 64's or 65's plenty of them laying around..





Nope ... only 62's and 69's ... uh-h-h ... and remember, we're talking cards.


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#9133 - 01/03/03 12:22 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: deadlyembrace]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

Offline
I've seen some of Guru's cards on ebay. They look very high end.
My guess is he knows his stuff. That's why I'm glad I called about the
Phils. I'll find out firsthand now.

aconte
_________________________

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#9134 - 02/10/03 05:50 PM Take another look at the subject of this thread! [Re: downgoesfrazier]
MW1
veteran


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1358

Offline
VaYank,

I want to be the first to say it. Based on what I've been seeing and hearing lately, you must be psychic.

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#9135 - 02/10/03 07:14 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: stanthemanfan]
Lothar52
enthusiast


Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 240
Loc: Ohio, USA

Offline
So... stanthemanfan...did the PRO card come back trimmed or?????

Lothar52
_________________________
--------------------
I love CAKE....

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#9136 - 03/11/03 12:57 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: Lothar52]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

Offline
Paul Zardoz(51) has become a GA authorized dealer. A fixture on the other board, his evolution has been apparent for months now. There's a symbolic importance here. Me thinks the wiwag thing was the last straw.

Yup, the word has to be spooked.

SGC just needs to keep plugging along, keep grading accurately and consistently.
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9137 - 04/13/03 08:50 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: vayank]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

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Had to push this up on the Board. I was pursuing the other Board, and GA/PSA angst is full swing again. That dealer dominated board is, obviously, heavily invested in the PSA slab but increasingly their hearts are with GA/Baker/Rochi. Some former PSA diehards are trying to figure out how to transition their investment from PSA to GA without literally losing their houses. What this means in the long run is anybody's guess, but it likely means PSA will regret parting with the Bad Boys of grading and it means good news for SGC, which is largely free of this type of soap opera. I am also reminded of Buddy Ryan cracking that Cris Carter only scores touchdowns.
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9138 - 04/13/03 08:57 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: vayank]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

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One more point. I noticed that an embrace of GA has made some posters candidates for the United Nations. Previously, some of these poster would triumphantly trash any compnay but PSA (saying it was the only true faith) and others would at least be partisan in their choice. But now that they are using GA, and are aware of some of the familar criticism that comes to GA and its brain trust, are espousing a "can't we all get along" thought. There is nothing with that thought -- it's a good one and I even picked up a GA slab as an impulse buy recently -- and certainly all major graders except BGS are options, but I find the evolution fascinating.

In any case, who will be standing in the end? GA or PSA?
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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#9139 - 04/13/03 09:54 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: vayank]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

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In reply to:

In any case, who will be standing in the end? GA or PSA?




Tough to say. They both could be around for a while. The Psa name is
strong. Evidence of this is with overgraded gem mint 10's such as this
card with an already $400 bid or so.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2722536505&category=16299

I just posted a couple comments in a thread on the Psa board.

Anyhow, I won't by GAI graded cards for many reasons. Some of their
tactics are low. There was an example of how their mentor program
had one person who did not even authorize or know that he was on
this list. This was mentioned on the Psa board. I was not surprised.
Just another example of Rocchi's win at any price attitude.

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=181573

aconte
_________________________

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#9140 - 04/17/03 03:48 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: aconte]
srs1a
Old, dense-headed hammers are cool. Best nail pounders.


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 987
Loc: NY

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aconte,

Even with a bad Carribean hangover, I can honestly say that is the worst looking gem mint card I have ever seen. I do not understand how badly centered cards end up in the wrong holders. Of all the criteria for grading, centering is the only one that is truely objective -- it's not that hard...a 10X measurement loupe is all you need...and I'm not sure that one is even an 8NQ.

On the subject of this thread, I agree with you -- I think both PSA and GAI will be around for a while...and so will SGC. All in all, probably not a bad thing.

I think I need to go back to the islands...the real world is killing me!

Scott

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#9141 - 04/18/03 07:03 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: srs1a]
aconte
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1896
Loc: On The Beach....where else!

Offline
Srs1a,

Welcome home! We missed you around here. Put an ice pack on
the head and let's gear up for the National.

aconte
_________________________

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#9142 - 04/21/03 12:43 PM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: srs1a]
Dungeon
If you have a dream about out-posting me, you better wake up and apologize.


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 2787
Loc: Still Married!

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I agree, thats a HORRIBLE GEM 10. PSA should buy that card back and change it to a 9 at the most. Shame shame.
_________________________
"Flesh eating is unprovoked murder" - Ben Franklin

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#9143 - 09/02/03 11:55 AM Re: GA has PSA Heads Spooked [Re: Dungeon]
vayank
The Amazing Card-Man


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 948
Loc: Alexandria, Va

Offline
Yes.
_________________________
---- Matthew T. Natale Alexandria, Virginia Completed 1977 Topps Baseball SGC Graded Set, Average Grade 92.89

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